See I think the exact opposite to you, Wakey, Cas, Wire Hudds times 2 plus Saints and Catalans are all games where we've scored enough points to win.

We shouldn't and can't afford to have the attitude of well we'll just score more than you.

It's especially worrying as you'd think injuries are more of an excuse for poor offence rather than defence.

Over 13 matches we have averaged 25 points against us and have averaged only 17.6 points for, which had been an average of just 15 prior to out last three improved scoring matches. So you can argue we could have done better with either an improved defense or an improved attack.

Although our defense had been dire I place most of the blame on our feeble attack. As has been said all other SL sides have scored more points than Leeds yet we have let in less points than the 5 sides immediately above us. Catalans in 2nd place have let in only 4 points less per game than Leeds, Hull in 3rd less than 3 points per game than us and Wigan in 4th with 4.2 points per game less.

As Printer has previously pointed out, handling errors apart from costing us points (and wins) have put huge extra pressure on our defense in having to defend unnecessary sets. Also the lack of direction/game management and on field leadership has cost us field position and scoring opportunities.

So no surprise to find Leeds top of the team errors charts with 179 and our main offenders being Watkins (25) Sutcliffe (1icon_cool.gif, Hardaker (17) and Hall (16) Galloway deserves a mention for making the least errors of the regular players with 2 and the second highest number of tackles with 338 behind JJB who made 365 in not that many games.

We are also top of the charts for carries, marker tackles and offloads, 3rd for Busts, clean breaks, metres made and missed tackles and 5th for tackles completed. So on the whole this does not indicate a lack of effort but I would say it shows a lack of awareness and on field organisation and also poor decision making.

No surprise that we are bottom for tries scored and only one side has kicked fewer goals (Wigan!) but quite a surprise that we have given away the least number of penalties and the only club not to have had a yellow card.

So I would say there is clear evidence to suggest our main culprit has been our lack of attacking ideas compounded by handling errors and missed tackles. So the injury to McGuire and the backs have been a major factors in losing tight games and our league position.

This signals to me the need to recruit a game manager/on-field organiser as it is too big a risk to reply on McGuire's fitness.

Saw some stats on Sky Sports Website a few rounds back with regards the attack

After 10 Rounds
2015 -
260 ptb in opponents 20m zone
32 tries

2016 -
320 ptb in opponents 20m zone
19 tries

That's some interesting reading, it certainly felt like we are conceding more than that, feels like 30 points a game.

I stand by the point though there are plenty of games where with a little better defence we could have won.

Wasn't there a year under Mac, might have been 2014 where we weren't really scoring but we we conceding under 20 points a game for a big chunk of the season?

2014

421 points against at an average of 15.5

And that's with shipping 40 at London when we rested for the cup final.

Juan - your analysis looks OK on paper, but not at all if you watch the tries we've conceded all year. Against Hudds in the Cup there were huge gaps all over the field, and a complete lack of urgency to get back into the defensive line and present much of a challenge after a half break. Nothing to do with 'controlling the ruck' or anything technical - players simply not getting back into position and failing to either notice or react to changes in direction from the attack.

I've seen those same problems repeated all year, together with shirt grabs on our line constituting tackles, and zero line speed on our own line (or in fact much sense of how we're trying to defend our line at all).

The defensive side of things has been laughably bad all year and injuries simply don't excuse that.

I agree and as I said our defends has been dire and needs fixing but despite this the overwhelming evidence points to our attack being the major problem.

Phil Gould and Andrew Johns discussed the poor form of Souths and Wests a few weeks ago, and both agreed that the first step to improvement has to be solid defence and simplifying the attack to concentrate on possession and field position. Basically defence being the best form of attack when out of form.

I guess overall its a chicken and egg - fix one and the other will probably follow. Eventually.

I an all this analysis you overlook one important element - the opposition and their ability to up their game should they have needed to?

The game has two teams it isn't a case of every opposing team is playing to the max. and the only team that can improve is Leeds?

Always been a depressing theme on here that it's remarkably only Leeds' injuries, handling errors, penalties etc that cost points and even wins.

Lots of things happen in eighty minutes, not just to Leeds but to both teams.

No I didn't overlook the opposition Sal and I did not say Leeds needed to play to the max either.

It is clear from the stats and the performances that I have seen that we have lost tight games by poor decision making and bad handling. An example was Sutcliffe's woeful decision not to pass to the unmarked Watkins with an unmarked Briscoe outside him. No amount of opposition upping their game would have stopped 6 points to us. This is just one example out of many and again how many tries have gone begging with poor handling with defenses beaten. Watkins, Hardaker and others have fumbled the ball and cost us dearly.

As I pointed out we are bottom of the table with the lowest points for in the league yet we are the leading team for carries and offloads and 3rd best for tackle busts, clean breaks and metres made. So even you must acknowledge this clearly shows we have failed to take advantage of field position and opportunities and we all know why - poor decision making and bad handling plus missing 3 out of 4 of our back line and our main halfback playmaker.

I accept that we have given away too many soft tries so work has to be done all round but what you continue to overlook is that without our main playmaker in the halves and without our most effective centre and both international wingers our attack has been largely decimated and when you include a badly out of form MOS fullback and star centre you can see why.

Again you are not taking into account poor decision making by our opposition that could lead to even larger winning margins - this is a two way street. If Brough had run the ball on Friday rather than kick the drop goals the winning margin could have been even more emphatic. Are you suggesting are opponents haven't missed tries through the inability to execute - it is just Leeds? If you aren't I can't see any evidence of it in your posts.

You choose not to see the obvious facts I stated which are based on what has happened on the field. Other teams have been making the most of their chances and therefore already making better decisions with less room for improvement.

We are bottom of the table for try scoring and next to bottom for try assists yet 3rd for tackle busts and clean breaks and way out top for offloads and carries so we clearly have the most scope for improvement so your analogy does not stand scrutiny. It only needed a bit better decision making and a bit better handling to have made a huge difference to our results because having got into space with our busts, breaks and offloads or gained the field position with our carries and metres we failed to take advantage with very poor handling proved by our topping the error count.

I am sure the stats do not state that a tackle bust or break is at the same time as carries or territory. They are all seperate stats in their own right. Unless you go to the match and collate them and match them after, then you are in no position to make that statement.

Plenty of our busts and breaks have come from within our own twenty.

Decision making like that of the coach who left Lilley (who had played in all 7 games upto Easter) warming the bench for the entire eighty at Castleford, a game in which Leeds made more metres, carries, offloads and clean breaks www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... port/12236 according to Opta, a game Leeds' inability to cross ultimately cost them, a game Leeds should have won. And incidentally yet another game where Leeds were nearer to fielding their 1st choice seventeen according to the cumulative count of squad numbers: Castleford 236 - 213 Leeds

Decision making like that of the coach who left Lilley (who had played in all 7 games upto Easter) warming the bench for the entire eighty at Castleford, a game in which Leeds made more metres, carries, offloads and clean breaks www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... port/12236 according to Opta, a game Leeds' inability to cross ultimately cost them, a game Leeds should have won. And incidentally yet another game where Leeds were nearer to fielding their 1st choice seventeen according to the cumulative count of squad numbers: Castleford 236 - 213 Leeds