The lacklustre PERFORMANCES are where the substance in my opinion comes from what games are you watching?
The games against Manly ,Wire and Catalan show exactly WHERE we should be in terms of effort,structure and desire wise yet we aren't.
JP been Knackered hasn't just crept up on us ,neither has Sinfield getting battered out wide.
How many times have we been walked through defensively and how many times should a team be poor before some changes in selection are warranted.
Read what others have posted i'd say there's more that are concerned than just saying "we were good against Manly" so we shouldn't criticise!!
This team could and should be playing much better there are players clearly out of form and some who are desperately in need of a rest yet nothing changes i suppose you applaud the coach for picking every international player v Wakey i call it desperate and one we've yet to get away with plus watching us show the resiliance of the Greek financial sector wasn't my idea of building confidence in a struggling team.
The answers are straight forward the defence NEEDS restructering becasue as is it's not working and we can't ignore it because it was ok a few months ago.
The selection of certain players also needs sorting some are knackered and some out of form what's the point of having Moore ,Griffin ,Bailey ,JP ,Kylie and then adding Singleton and D.Smith to the squad list and only flogging 2 and using one as a 13??
Young Clarkson has been getting dominated ,prior to his injury Webb was a liabillity for every couple of good passes.
We have a 30 man squad of that squad we have players that are bang in form full of confidence and desperate for a chance to play for the 1st team so why shouldn't they get a game when the tired and tested are on such a poor run of form?
As for the rest of yer posts i get heated when someone questions my loyalty and trys and tells me how i should support this club especially when all they've done is IGNORE every other post that has pointed out the same things i have.
The substance is there every week on the pitch and NONE are beyond critisism or comment because tey've won games and trophys in the past even the players are admitting how cr## they've been so aren't they allowed to say so?
I've no doubts there's work going in on the training ground but come gametime as yet that work hasn't taken effect nor has it changed where we are consistently weak and poor.
Finally we loan out a young 9 and SIGN a 9 on loan who has 99% of his life played at 9 why f##k about trying to make him something he clearly isn't??
I'll be there sunday and i'll be there for the 9's the u18's and u20's and that will continue irrespective of performance or results but it won't stop me from saying when it's been poor either and IF you re-read this thread carefully you'll see i'm not the only one who has this opinion but i guess we are all wrong for saying as such!!

BMD is a desperate man at the moment, this is evidenced by his continued selection of many players who are either not performing or are physically shattered (like Peacock finally admitted on twitter this week).

BMD is failing to address any of the problems we currently see (and have done for a very long time) namely, lack of attacking structure, failure to set and maintain a strong defence, poor line speed, poor last tackle options, poor kicking game, failure to win collisions with or without the ball (this is a technical skill and hence should be coached).

By allowing this situation to persist, whilst having other playing options available, he is failing in his coaching duty. Rhinoswinorlose claims that because the "clients" of Leeds Rhinos choose to show their frustration at BMD for this failure and the judgement of him on the hour and a half that we see the players play, we are treating him shamefully. I completely disagree with this view. As a sporting coach, the only thing that matters is performance and this has been woefully lacking for most of his tenure. He has taken teams backwards in each year of his coaching career, this is documented fact. I like the guy, I've met him and he's a good bloke, but he's not the right person to be head coach at Leeds.

BMD has not been treated shamefully at all, moreover he has been shown great leniency by the "Leeds faithful" for a long time. He is failing, and anyone who tries to disguise this is an apologist.

You still keep wittering on about your right to criticise as though you were in danger of being gagged. I would say the number of your critical postings is clear proof that you do practice this right with regularity.

I would say that a coach that won the Championship and WCC in his first season against a background of injuires, ageing stars with lost form and tired legs would have deserved a bit more loyalty than putting all the blame at his door. I did not agree with your call for his head last season and I don't agree with your repeat solutions this time around.

I repeat once again that I too am dissappointed in many of our performances but I do not have the full picture as I do not attend the coaching sessions or game plan meetings and so cannot pass judgement on where the main fault lies. However my guess is it mainly down to the players peaked early in the season for the WCC and have all hit a flat spot together and when this happens there is not much a coach can do if he believes the youngsters are not quite ready yet.

Also it is not just the old timers that have lost form. It is hard to find any who look sharp at the moment but you cannot drop them all. This set of players know full well what is required of them and they know too how our defensive structures should be working.

The side have always relied on Sinfield to organise, JP to take us forward and tackle his heart out and Burrow and Mags to finish things off. What is dissappointing is that our key men are off the boil and without them we seem lost with no one good enough to replace them.

I would have liked to have seen a bit more of the youngsters but the coach has been sticking with his first choices who have the proven skills and experience to get through this trough. Lets hope his loyalty will once again be rewarded.

Rhinoms – When have I questioned your loyalty? When have I told you how to support the Club? Quote me. I haven’t either ignored people’s comments – I’ve been more than fair in replying to most, often repeating myself; just because I don’t agree doesn’t mean that I’m ignoring people.

I go to all the games, same as you, and I have commented many times that the performances of late have not been good enough. I think my comments regarding the good games we’ve played this year are fair and provide some balance. I haven’t once said anyone should not criticise because of the good games we’ve played, but I do think we need some balance. I agree that it would be good to give some of the young lads a go, but as I’ve repeated loads in this forum, we need to ensure that we time this for their benefit too. I have discussed above that I think we were right to loan out Liam Hood (who I assume you are talking about). Shaun Lunt will be the same age now that Brett Delaney was when he moved to the second row from the centre – as I say earlier, this was a good move by Mac. I don’t say it will work out for Lunt in any other position but while he’s here, we might as well see where we can play him.

To be honest rhinoms, I’m getting really tired of replying to you – I’m trying to have a fair debate here and have been more than fair in addressing most people’s comments to me; I haven’t ignored fair points and arguments, been rude to anyone, questioned anyone’s loyalty, told them how to support the Club, or said anyone is wrong for having a different opinion to mine. I’m having to repeat myself time and time again to you so either you aren’t reading my responses, or you are, but you just don’t like my opinion and can only keep telling me I’m ignoring you and telling you what to do. If I don’t agree, I don’t agree, but I’m not going to keep replying to you when you keep telling me I’m saying and doing things which I’m clearly not. I’ve been fair to this point but won’t spend any more time replying to you.

JC-I'm not just blaming the coach but the structure ,selection and tactics come from him and Lowes don't they?
Of course the players shoulder their share of the blame and lets be right ive not said they should be publicly hung or burnt at the stake as witches.
Also who says Singleton won't do just as well as kylie or be good enough to at least fill the gap left by a rested JP?
We won't know weither unless we give them and others a chance and i think selection been guaranteed irrespective of form is wrong.
This season we don't have the JP and Mags long term injuries and we certainly are worse defensively.
You may accept it but i don't think it's good enough for this squad and once again IF we win the CC or reach either final that won't disguise how poor we have been will it or make it ok?
I was chuffed to be proved wrong last year and for me just reaching each final was a great achievement let alone winning 1 and looking so good for an hour in the other.
Again i ask how many poor games are acceptable if you have past success?

rhinowinorlose-To be fair the disloyal response was aimed at JC's dig.
You did however mention in one of yer other posts how you choose to support the team and that came across to me as patronising and a dig at how i support the club if that's not the case then i don't mind apologising for mis-reading it.
We will certainly have to agree to disagree because as far as your debate about lacking substance to my opinions i say the substance is there on the pitch imo.
Also i'll repeat what i originally posted re-abuse of the coach anything personal etc is not on and not something i take part in or condone but that doesn't mean we cant have differing opinions of his tenure selections etc etc.
I'm happy enough to leave it there and hope we can re-group and mount a serious top 5 challenge and have a dig in the CC semi.

Hi batleyrhino – I don’t know that I would say the decision to play all the England guys on Monday was desperate; while we needed to win, we didn’t need to win by a huge margin (and just as well!!). I’ve talked earlier about some of the players needing the confidence that can be taken away from a good performance, and I wonder if that was a large part of the decision.

I agree that the last 18 months have been really patchy in terms of performances, but any problems from last year clearly were addressed (as we saw in the performances at the end of last season). If we look at this year alone, we had a pretty decent start to the season (February to the Catalans home game in April), and then since then I agree, we haven’t seen a lot to inspire us. It’s difficult to say whether or not these things are being addressed in training as the execution comes from the players (obviously I talk about this in my original post).

I don’t have a problem with people getting frustrated about our performances but what I find shameful is the booing and heckling that I’ve seen. I haven’t seen much leniency – fans standing in front of me were booing Mac from the middle of last year and even during his turn to speak at the Wakefield home game last year (our last game of the season). Fans within my earshot were booing him at Bradford away, in Manchester and at Warrington away – before the game even started. Thankfully this was met with a supporting chant for Mac (which was not started by me!) I daresay this booing has happened at plenty of the other games too (though not in my earshot). In his time at London the team may have finished in lower places but in my opinion there were many other contributing factors to this (see my debate with tvoc) so I find it difficult to place all the blame at his door.

You may look at my views and say I’m trying to disguise something, but what I’ve really tried to do is defend a guy who’s done plenty of good things at our Club, even with the recent performances. I’m not ignoring anything, I’m just looking at differently to some of you.

Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.

Shameful my @rse!
Time to get rid, simply not good enough for Leeds.
Do the honorable thing Brian before its out of your hands.

It's someone offering a well thought out counterpoint to the rabid baying for the blood of anyone but their sainted man-crushes in the playing squad. If you choose not to engage in that kind of debate, it's your loss. It offers a hell of a lot more to this forum than a lot of the drivel that passes for opinion on here.

To be honest its nice to have a positive poster on here. I'm kind of split on the subject though, i think while McDermott needs to be questioned for the performance (opposite to what the OP thinks) i agree with him that the criticism shouldn't go into abuse territory. Healthy and non-too-personal criticism is ok, going onto booing during games, name calling and disrespectful comments i think is unnecessary.

I believe Swiftcorn got a bit of a ban following an argument on the VT with an Aussie about Aussie Rules Football and claiming he knew Australia better than a guy who lives there. Don't know if it applies to here though but his absence is greatly appreciated.

Quote: Gotcha "Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.'" It's not really a case of getting sucked in, as others have commented it's remained a civil discussion. I've always been notoriously poor at identifying the men behind the 'characters' but agree it's likely to be one of the regulars. Either way it's provided an outlet for some frustration. Will it change anyone's view - I doubt it. rhinowinorlose probably still thinks Henry Paul wasn't replaced at the Harlequins and that he was always a leading role model off the field : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 038590.stm I'm guessing the Quins were just grateful he wasn't the chauffeur driver behind the wheel of that Mercedes S280.

Quote: Gotcha "Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.'" It's not really a case of getting sucked in, as others have commented it's remained a civil discussion. I've always been notoriously poor at identifying the men behind the 'characters' but agree it's likely to be one of the regulars. Either way it's provided an outlet for some frustration. Will it change anyone's view - I doubt it. rhinowinorlose probably still thinks Henry Paul wasn't replaced at the Harlequins and that he was always a leading role model off the field : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 038590.stm I'm guessing the Quins were just grateful he wasn't the chauffeur driver behind the wheel of that Mercedes S280.

Agreed. It's a discussion forum, this is a discussion. Does seem to wind a few people up though - not sure why.

I think in short they players have to take the criticism for the way they play and they shouldn't be exempt from criticism but equally the manager has to take some blame for the standard of play and tactics used in the game.