MOS is nothing more than a player's popularity contest amongst their peer group.

Leeds players should wear that failure as a badge of honour.

Until the infamous Hokey Cokey in the South of France and things turned very sour for approximately two years.

What is it we pay a coach for then?

Before 2008 that was the player's player of the year. Journalists decided MOS.

Agreed and I would imagine it was used a few times during that glorious run as a motivational tool. Doesn't stop us fans commenting on the poor form that is none of our individuals being recognised between 2004 and 2009

Tony Smith would not make Wakey a great side - without the personnel it doesn't how good a coach they there is only so much they can add.

Smith is a great coach - but as he showed the previous 2 years at Warrington he cannot do it without the players.

Even McDermott could have coached the 2004 side to where it finished - oh wait a minute!!

The question is this if the whole of Leeds' success was down to Smith how did things go so wrong in 2005!!

You might be right. At Leeds he had a great bunch of youngsters all coming through at the same time, at Warrington they've bought a great bunch of players.

He still gets credit for making them play together as well as do.

The previous two years when he won trophies in each of them?

When smith took over, both leeds and warrington had excellent squads. He made a few subtle signings here and there and turned both squads from being excellent on paper to excellent on grass.

It will be interesting to see how his time at warrington evolves after he wins the title with them this year. Certainly with ourselves things seemed to go very stale after the first 20months and didn't pick up until that last little hurrah in the playoffs.

It's worth bearing in mind that coaches, as well as players, learn from their experiences. Smith was hardly a vastly experienced coach when he was leading Leeds to the title in 2004, or taking us to agonising defeats in 2005. He won't have stayed the same coach, doing the same things he did then - I would have thought the 2006 downturn will have tought him some valuable lessons.

And for everyone who says he inherited or had bought great squads - of all clubs Leeds know that can mean very little, moreso nowadays in a sport when all the top clubs have identical budgets.

Smith can't prevent himself from making poor signings, or using tactics which other coaches have found ways to counteract. Only hindsight can prevent these things.

Smith strikes me as someone who is quite arrogant. He had to make the same mistakes again, and again......and again in 2006 before he finally changed.

Arrogant? From media interviews I suppose he might sound that way but I think he is someone who is actually quite shy and reserved which might come across in a certain way if you're looking for something to beat him with. But certainly he has a confidence and an authority - the type you probably have to have to be a good coach over a sustained period; and the type you earn. Leeds fans were on his back in '06 but then there are always people who are willing to jump on you when times are hard and always people who know better. Or think they do. I was one of them.

It's not an easy job and it's impossible to be the best every single time. But to repeatedly and demonstrably improve players, create winning teams and to instill confidence within your team and from your team in yourself and in your tactics tells its own story. To take on failing or underachieving clubs and transform them into winners - again, plenty of Leeds coaches could tell their own tales of how difficult that trick is.

Tony Smith's record speaks for itself.

Many (not all) but many of Leeds' record totals against teams were set during his time leading the club. Considering the many point-fests enjoyed by Warrington this season I imagine the same can be said for them.

Flat-track bullying at it's finest and nothing wrong with that as long as the grit is there to win the close games as well and by and large you have to conclude it was and still is.

Smith may not turn Wakey into Champions but im pretty sure he would improve them. The mark of a good coach is surely getting individual players to perform as well as they possibly can and then getting them all to play as a team. Smith seems to be able to achieve this better than most other coaches in SL as his record proves.
As someone has already pointed out Wire have won trophies the last 2 seasons. Their first for many years.
If you think things went so wrong in 2005 then you have unrealistic expectations. We reached both finals, losing narrowly in the CC and to a Salary cap cheating Bulls in the GF. Won the WCC and played some of the best RL ever seen at Headingley.

People totally under estimate the importance of hunger and desire from players. In a nutshell attitude.

Warrington are not in the same position as Leeds were in 2004. Warrington have aged players, coming to an end. They did have hunger as never achieved much, but now that hunger will to a degree have been met.

By contrast, the Leeds players that achieved the same feat had many years ahead of them and a desire and hunger to dominate for a period. On the oppossite, when Wigan did it they had a great core that grew with the team, but made changes every year in positions to ensure they maintained the dominance.

Smiths done a great job in getting his tools in the right places to turn around Warrington, but he doesn't have the same tools has he had at Leeds, to prolong it. And I am not convinced, in a salary capped sport that he could do the same way Wigan did either.

Yeah. They're crowing now, cock 'o' north aren't they? But soon they will be right down in the pack again, made to look like fools. The cycle complete. AHAHAHAHA