The Doug Laughton era was fantastic to watch, like you say, not successful, but always played a good brand of rugby. Loved watching fallon and Iro together on the right edge.

Thank you for a well formed contra argument.

2011 was a massive year in all respect, McD came in to a successful club and had to put his stamp on the team. Yes we had great players, but they all kept resigning extensions to play under him. I think the league form was likely down to players being uncomfortable with his coaching style. Name players that have left during his tenure that have been successful under other coaches?

In 2014, we were joint 2nd until round 21 then fell apart in the league after the cc win. I suspect the players mentally were done after that and I think that was disappointing. Both players and coach accept that as mentioned in the AGAIG documentary. Fast forward a year, almost replicating the same downfall. We have the experience to complete the treble.

2016 was a perfect storm and we were awful, but I don’t believe McD told the players to go out there and play crap, he managed to turn it around when it mattered and when we got our training facilities back.

I loved the Doug Laughton era, that was when I was a young kid and fell in love with the game.

I agree standards have fallen but that’s not leeds’ fault. The game needs some serious investment to get it back to the peak SL era which I think was when Tony Smith was in charge. Some of the rugby we played then was amazing to watch. Where that investment comes from will be interesting and hope the new RFL chief can help it get back to that.

But as a club, we seem to be doing alright despite this. I’ll be a fan if we get to old Trafford, I’ll be a fan if we get relegated to the championship.

I’ll try one last time.

You’re argument is like this:

I have a piece of 24crt gold, you say “that’s not gold, it’s crap”. I say “well, I’ve analysed the gold and it is indeed gold, not crap. Here is the supporting evidence”. You say “it is crap because I say it’s crap and I’m right. You can’t tell me I’m wrong because I believe I’m right”, despite not offering anything to say why you’re right except for stating it is crap.

When attempting to deal with this sort of failed logic all I can say now is. “OK, you’re entitled to your opinion”. Shrug and move on.

Maybe, but I would imagine if this forum was around then the complaining about not winning anything would br absolutely rife and probably by the same people who moan about McDermott.

So, would the moaners swap our trophies for entertaining rugby during the regular season? Would you swap places last year with Castleford? Was the GF win not good?

I am stating the success (gold) we’ve had under McD as facts. That backs up my opinion that McD and the team suffer unfair criticism on this board every time we lose.

You keep stating your list of opinions. If your opinions had any basis in fact, you would offer those facts to back them up instead of just listing your opinions and saying “well that’s my opinion and how I see it” as your justification for it.

Let me ask you a question, if we have a lack of structure, no gameplan, no organisation, clueless attack, soft defence, poor rotation of subs and years of dreadful rugby. Would we be the most successful club is SL under the most successful coach in SL?

I say the things I do for comedic effect. Because the opinions you offer, in my opinion, deserve ridicule. That’s my opinion so you can’t now say anything against this because that’s my opinion.

Apples and oranges, the laughton era team were competing against one of the best club sides ever, who were a match for even some of the best NRL teams of all time, like the Brisbaine team of that era. We were a great team that played great rugby, i would of loved to have won afew trophies at the time but i could accept We were competing against something special and i enjoyed the rugby we played and the odd time we beat them. Like Dyl, that was when i started loving rugby league and Leeds inparticular, so i very much doubt id of been on here complaining about them.

I wouldnt call people who dont rate mcdermott "moaners" just like i wouldnt call people who rate him fanboys or cheerleaders, we'r all fans of Leeds with different views and different ways of expressing them.

To answer your question, i dont think it has to be one or the other for a club as big as us, i believe we should be well capable of challenging for and winning our fair share of trophies, whilst playing a good standard of entertaining rugby. Would the people who rate mcdermott have enjoyed the rugby we'v played during his time in charge, if we'd lost a couple of those grandfinals or playoff games?

Thought we'd shrugged our shoulders and moved on? How can i take you seriously when you cant make your mind up from one post to the next. Go on, il humour you...

The success had started long before mcdermott became head coach, since he took over the league positions have largley got worse and the rugby dramatically worse, despite the standard of the opposition getting significantly weaker.

Let me ask you a question? How can a coach with an apparant lack of any weakness, guide a club as big as us, to the middle eights two seasons ago and well on our way there this year? Please dont say injuries, every club gets them.

Dont tell fibs, Your giving yourself way too much credit, you say the things you do because your out of your depth in this discussion. Trying to pass them off as comedic effect is silly.

I know i started this about the laughton era saying i loved it to watch but i have to say that if that was in the social media era like now, you would still have got many many people wanting his head on a regular basis. Mainly because we were so starved of success back then and he got so much money to spend and we fell short, i remember he brought in Hanley, Eyres, Mercer, Fallon, Innes, Faimalo, Iro, Tait and others all cost a lot of money and with his reputation for winning trophies at Widnes we all thought it would be a given he would deliver for us.yes looking back the rugby was great, fantastic at times. But lets not pretend there was not serious frustration at the time we couldn't land any trophies as good as wigan were

Well personally i would call people that have consistently used the same arguments to call for McDermotts head sice june 2011 ‘moaners’ but lets agree to disagree.

The point is we have won those GFs those are facts, the enjoyment of the rugby is opinion.

Please read my post and respond logically instead of emotionally. Then I might answer your question. How can I take you seriously when you invent things I’ve said in your head and then ask me to prove these inventions. When did I say he has no weakness?

Fair enough that pal can't argue with that view.

I have never called for his head once, but felt he should have walked away at end of 2015 and let someone else re-shape the squad. I've always said that a coach with Mcdermott's record needs to go on his terms and not be pushed but it seems the only way he does go is when GH pulls the trigger which is a big shame.

How many Challenge cups had we won in the SL era before Mcdermott and how many after?

How many Trebles?

How many times since hetherington and caddick saved us had we nearly got relegated?

We could go on like a couple of schoolgirls forever, im sure everyone else is sick of us, i thought we'd agreed to move on, but then you appear again. You need to accept that not everyone has to agree with you. I dont care if you answer my question, you'v shown me you lack an undestanding of the game, your answer would more than likely be another failed attempt at intellect, humour or a mixture of both, maybe some nonsense about gold and crap. I dont rate mcdermott, you do. Il be the bigger man and say we'l agree to disagree.