Still to see anything from Lilley that suggests he is anything more than a shirt filler until something better turns up at Headingley. Leeds need a quality half-back to lead them back to SL respectability and no part of his game convinces me he's close to providing it. His lack of pace both with and without the ball is really scary in a 19 year old and he doesn't have the game to begin to compensate for that.

No don't want you to list games he played.....just pointing out the claim the upturn started after he left is incorrect....and also first 5/6 games he was one of the better performers actually, although that's not saying much. (Away to Wigan he was one of very few who didn't give up and stopped us from being nilled with his try at the end)

What 19 year old does? (Anybody would think Luke Gale was at his current level at 19) He's played a key part in the tries and the few wins we've had this year in a poor performing side. Let's list the number of 19 year HB's who've done that in SL.............

If the lad can play a decent (yet admittedly needs to learn) part at 19, what can he do at 22/23 with another 75/100 games behind him? Like pointed out, no different to Gale except he's come along at the right time to get first team chances.

You are going off at a tangent. Where did I mention "the upturn started"?

I said "In my view it is no coincidence that team spirit has improved since he departed" So I think you missed the point.

It would take longer to list the games this year where he played badly!

I'd rather have a halfback who has some kind of idea how to run a game than some headless chicken with bags of pace. SL produces loads of the latter, very very few of the former. I've no idea if Lilley will make it, but halfbacks with his kind of attitude and eye for the game are what SL is desperately short of.

Good luck to Lilley i hope he makes it but as ive said i just havent seen much to say hes the player others are making him out to be.

To say hes better than Gale was at 19 because hes played SL is not a fair comparison. Gale had Sinfield Maggsy and Burrow in their prime and was never gonna get a game at 19. If he had he would have performed better than Lilley has in my opinion. His passing, kicking and running skills were much higher.

Lilley is said to be an organiser but there is a world of difference between an organising scrum half and a lad stood there pointing for no reason. How many tries has he created this year??? Ive seen 2. One on opening night v Wire for Hall and one at Hudds in cup for Keinhorst. How many clean breaks has he made???

Now given all that he is very young, he has a great attitude, there are improvements to be clearly seen in his defence. Hes been in a struggling team through no fault of his which must of made his job difficult.

I hope the kid makes it but he looks no better than lads like Gavin Brown, Gareth Moore etc to me who ended up in the Championship.

This is a very good point, Sutcliffe has rarely stepped up to take control of the last tackle plays all year at either half back or full back. I can't imagine this is part of McDermott's game plan as when Sutcliffe does kick he kicks very well, certainly better than some of the attempts we saw on Friday.

At Lilley's age, Luke Gale was playing in the third tier of English rugby league with Doncaster. It's only as he's hit his mid-20s that people have spoken in more glowing terms about his ability.

So I'd have no trouble arguing that Lilley - who Featherstone fans have been really impressed with when they've had him on DR - is a better player than Gale was at 19.

Just while we're on young half-backs, I hope the club have something sorted out with Joe Sanderson for next year whereby he can go out on loan somewhere while remaining a Leeds player.

In his final year at Under 19s, but has come on leaps and bounds this season IMO. Be a shame to see him drift off somewhere else and another club get the permanent benefits of the work Leeds have put in.

To be honest Andy, I would have wrote him off earlier in the year, never looked like he could handle it. This year you can't ignore the fact that he has been tearing up trees in that competition, and come on leaps and bounds. How the hell he has been ignored from the first team, despite all the problems we have had in the halfs, is anyones guess. It was a perfect opportunity to see if he could offer something before getting to the point of new contracts.

I suspect he will have done enough to stay on and play for the reserves next year.

You and your Reserves Gotcha. Not gonna happen at Leeds under GH.

Gale was playing for doncaster in the third tier at 21. it wasnt that he had couldnt get passed Sinfield, Mcguire or Burrow at that age, there were many others at other clubs. If you put lilley in the third tier now id reckon his passing, kicking and running skills would look much higher.

The point being made by the comparison with Gale is that very few scrum halves, even good ones, look good enough to make it at 19. Most dont even get the opportunity to try. Nearly all are playing youth or lower league RL, and dont start SL until 21, and dont 'look good enough' until a couple of years later.

It is in that context that we need to judge Lilley, and for me, in that context he's done pretty well. He has a great temperament, outstanding confidence, and has shown some great touches, yes he is inconsistent and sometimes makes poor decisions and poor execution but thats what you should expect in a young player.

He isn't going to have a choice matey. Unless of course we are relegated

Good points. I think the fact that Lilley has more than held his own at 19 bodes well and we all should be optimistic about his future. He is of course far from the finished article but i can't think of too many halves that are under 23 so he has bags of time to hone his skills.