Quote: Juan Cornetto "Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. '" So when it comes to the economic argument, should I listen to Michael Gove (2:1 in English, career as a journalist) and Chris Grayling (2:1 in History, career in television production) or ten of the world's leading economists? www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... xit-damage Just want to make sure I'm prudently examining the prominence of the so-called experts on both sides.

Quote: Juan Cornetto "Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. '" So when it comes to the economic argument, should I listen to Michael Gove (2:1 in English, career as a journalist) and Chris Grayling (2:1 in History, career in television production) or ten of the world's leading economists? www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... xit-damage Just want to make sure I'm prudently examining the prominence of the so-called experts on both sides.

Undoubtedly Project Fear has been the main thrust of the Remain campaign run by by Cameron and Osborne from the very start. You cannot argue with this. I cannot recall anything positive they have said about staying in the EU, just a catalogue of disasters if we leave be it thousands of pounds less in people's pockets, huge unemployment, massive tax rises, renaging on the pensioners triple lock, back of the queue in making trade deals, increases in food, increases in everthing else, the pound plummeting, stock exchanges in melt down, another European war, huge tarriffs, flying in Obama to issues threats to his closest ally etc etc. Then there has been the coordinated personal attacks on the likes of Boris Johnson.

The official Leave campaign has on the whole been positive and optimistic and more up beat with little fear or personal attacks and no threats.

Nigel Farage is not part of the official Leave campaign and has as always been more controversal. His recent poster certainly had some project fear about it but the hypocritical outrage coming from the orginators of the official Project Fear campaign is laughable as they are quite happy to dole it out but shout foul when the ball is smashed back.

I am not a reader of the Express but last time I looked they are also not part of the official Leave campaign. In a free press they are entitled to give their comment as indeed does the Guardian too with its one sided views . If fear can be backed up with facts it is legitimate. I would suggest some of those Express headlines can be backed up with facts.

However which of the official Project Fear campaign tales of doom can be backed up with facts? Wheeling out so called experts to back up their acute pessimism has largely been discredited because of the absence of facts. I have been arguing for facts not opinions from the celeb experts and their acolytes with so far none forthcoming

ignoring expert opinion because it can't be 100% proven and listening to passionate salesmen blaming them and selling you a rosy future is how people end up refusing chemotherapy and treating cancer with crystals

Leave is asking me to ignore the experts because if we all just believe hard enough it will all turn out great.

Frankly I stopped believing in fairytales a long long time ago and I have no respect for those who continue to pedal them to vulnerable people for their own benefit

Right from the start I have been undecided, and swung one way then the other. But recently I have read up on everything, and although still in my heart I go one way, and in my head the other.

What I do know is what you have put above, is coimplete and utter nonsense. From everything I have read the only fear campaign in this referendum has been from the Leave side. Nothing positive or truthful for that matter has come out of that side, just gimmicks and soundbites that catch attention. I certainly have my issues with Europe and some of the things with the remain side, but they have at the very least laid facts on the table, and stuck to how it works. On that basis, I have no choice, for the sake of my family, and the employees under me to go with what is coming loud and clear in the head, rather than the heart.

So Michael Gove comparing economists to Nazi stooges who denegrated the work of Einstein this morning isn't a personal attack on their integrity and ability?

Righto.

The constant rhetoric of "taking back control" from the official Leave campaign is in no way meant to scare anyone into voting Leave?

Righto.

Still, it's good to see your total inability to recognise facts even when laid right in front of your eyes extends beyond rugby league and into the wider world. The fact is that NOBODY within the Leave campaign has the foggiest clue what will happen if they win the vote tomorrow. Their entire campaign is based on a triumphalist, nationalist optimism that because we're Britain we'll find a way to figure it out and come out the other end smelling of roses.

They don't know what the outcome of trade talks will be. They don't know what kind of agreement they will be able to negotiate with the EU and the rest of the world. They don't know how long those agreements will take to finalise and what will happen in the meantime. They are stepping off a ledge into a very dark hole and hoping that there's a soft mattress at the bottom rather than a bed of spikes. They are preying on the insecurities of small-minded xenophobes who believe Britain is "full".

If lining up with Johnson, Gove, Grayling, Patel, Duncan-Smith, Putin, Farage, Nick Griffin, Britain First, Katie Hopkins, Louise Mensch, Toby Young, George Galloway and all the rest of the who's who of Britain's crackpots, oddballs and racists isn't enough for people to reconsider whether they're wise to decide on a "Leave" vote, then the deaf-eared, fact-free propagandist ramblings of Juan should be enough to send them over the edge. Good work, Mr.Cornetto.

This.

The rabid xenophobic right wing press is the mouth piece of the Leave campaign. Their hatred & bile led to the murder of a fine MP & mother. That leaves its leaders free to promise unattainable milk & honey. The Remain campaign do not have that free publicity. I loathe Cameron, Osborne & their neo-liberal economics with a passion, & generally do not believe a word that comes out of their gobs. I have family in Western & Eastern Europe, have travelled & volunteered a fair bit through Europe. I have more affinity with those Europeans & a belief they have a sense of social justice than I do with an Eton Oxbridge elite with an ideological hatred of the public sector, which is why I am will be voting Remain. Nothing to do with economics.

He's got to be a Remain agent. No-one can be that myopic.

You cannot offer an aurgument against what I said though can you?

I'm voting stay but I am fed up of the 'Remain' voters dismissing and looking down on Leave voters with an almost snobbish contempt. Constantly bring up names such as Farage in some sort of way to shame a Leave voter. Even the JK Rowling article posted earlier was her ripping into Trump with plenty of disparaging terms used to describe him and then saying he's in favour of leave and thus tying leave voters with the same brush as those words she used to describe him.

Like I said I'm voting to remain but the attitude of many remain voters towards leave voters has been embarrassing trying to ridicule and belittle them.

But you refuse to accept the very poor prediction record any of these so called experts have?

OK so you are not an optimist and you do not believe in our ability to make a success outside the EU yet you do believe the fairtales od doom and armageddon!

So please explain which of the negative Remain points I listed above are accurate and why?

Also please quote me the Remain positive message because I must have missed it.

What are the negative or untruthfull things the Leave campaign have said?

Do you really believe the Remain campaign has not spread fear?

Not talking strictly about the EU, but why when making an important decision would you ignore a whole raft of experts, yet fully take on board the opinion of a non-expert with a clear ideology/agenda?

Seems pretty stupid.

I mean, if you were to get a £40k extension on your house, you would get your mate Bob (who's an accountant, but did a ok job of repointing his wall a few years ago) down the road to draw up the plans, or would you get an architect?

In our daily lives we rely on experts with a vastly superior knowledge on the subject than we have to help us do what's best, yet in one of the biggest decisions you'll ever make, you've decided they chat a load of b0ll0cks and you'll trust a load of politicians with dubious agendas and political records? Where's that banging against a brick wall emoticon gone?