Yup. Spot on.

9 games represents 1/3rd of the season!!

9 games is just under a third of a season for a team going out in the 4th round of the Challenge Cup and missing out on a play-off spot.

They are here at the expense of Ambler and Amor.

Where's the benefit?

Yes it does and when during that time have we had full squad available?
Plus how long should it take for new signings to settle in?
On the Hauraki point there's no way you can say that a player who's 25 can't improve in a better enviroment/squad and i also never labelled him in Alis calibre.
The squad have struggled big time at stages and lack confidence and many 1st choice quality players so again i think it's too early to dismiss Cross and Hauraki as duds nor were they ever described/marketed as "Marquee" signings.

The coaches decided that during pre-season that both would be better served by going out on loan and getting regular SL games and if you check the squad lists Ambler has missed games for Quinns whether that's due to form or injury i don't know.
Brian Mc has already shown by starting Watkins and Bjb at the expense of Delaney and Smith he'll pick younger players when he thinks it's warranted.
Again too early to write new players off imo and having Amor/Ambler starting/playing more regular SL eleshwere is a good long term strategy rather than having 1 game for Leeds then 3/4 for the u20's imo.

This season Cross has made 21 tackles per game (2nd best prop) and has made the most marker tackles per game of the props. On current form it would be Kylie that would not make the squad.

Stats are not the be all and end all. and can be very misleading and used to fit what people want to see ( not accusing you by the way, just stating they can be made to fit)

I have yet to see Cross tackle someone with the same impact as a Kylie tackle. (Legally!!)

Not saying we should write them off just yet, but they hardly set the world on fire.

Someone mentioned that they are hear to add depth. With the loss of Eastwood, I would have exspected at least one big, signing not just average Joe's

You were not the only one to call for Delaney to be moved into the pack.

Hauraki has been a big disappointment so far but I guess he has been trying too hard to make an impact. Last season he averaged 25 tackles per game with offloads and tackle busts but also with 2.85 missed tackles per game. But he may yet prove to be an asset.

Likewise Cross. I think your assessment of him is a little harsh. He has come as a stop gap signing with experience and a good workrate and that is what we are getting. I suspect he is not fully match fit due to his low game time but if you look at his stats for his time on the field he is the most active of our props so far. He is averaging 21 tackles per game with the most marker tackles of our props and against Hull KR when many of our forwards were absent on defence he put in 31 tackles in 38 minutes.

As secretary of the Ryan Bailey fan club you have to be very carefull who you call brain dead!

Even if using stats alone to make that call (and no-one would do that surely) it remains arguable as to which of/(if indeed any of) Leuluai, Cross, Bailey, Kirke and Burgess would miss out on selection.

Of course stats don't tell the whole story but they are what the coaches use and consider of great importance. They do show the basic facts and can often contradict our intial opinions regarding players as human prejudice and emotion often colour our judgement. That is why some don't like stats.

So while some on here are rubbishing Cross his stats tell a different story. The following are not misleading:

games played 2011: Cross 7 Kylie 5
tackles per game: Cross 21 Kylie 14.6
marker tackles per game Cross 3.85 Kylie 2

I am not suggesting the Cross is a top class prop. But he looks to me exactly what we signed -a stop gap experienced rough, tough, workhorse. I don't think he has been fully match fit hence his low game time. However his 31 tackles in 38 minutes last week was impressive to me and when defensive is our big problem I would suggest we look at those who are not putting the work before we right this guy off.

If you were picking on current form you woul omit Kylie who has been on the wain for some time and this season is not cutting the mustard. I do hope that his form will returm.

If as you suggested we had a fully fit squad then Kirke would revert to 2nd row so Cross would still make the team.

It's a 'movement' rather than a fan club, please.

Cross on the field is brain dead. Unsubtle cheap shots on opponents, sloppy hands hitting his own players, going in head first with everything, getting dazed and confused, technically in rugby terms awful.

End of.

At the start of the season Leuluai would have been the first name down on my team-sheet when considering the prop positions (with Peacock unavailable) and his form pre the pectoral injury sustained V the Harlequins justified that selection IMO.

His form after the three week lay-off has been less impressive although his defensive stats have actually improved, possibly as a result of holding back on the impact side of the collision.



A fully fit pack with Leuluai, Peacock, Bailey, Burgess, Buderus, Jones-Buchanan, Ablett, Lauitiiti and Sinfield available would see Kirke/Hauraki/Clarkson/Cross fighting it out with McShane for the final place on the bench.

You mean like the "Tea Party Movement"?

Your decription of Cross would fit most props. And BB how you can talk about cheap shots when it is the raison d'etre of your idol.