Considering how many years he has done that for, you don't think the sudden change is an instruction rather than a choice?

loiner81 cannot substantiate his false claim because I never said it.

The original thread last year was about skill and it had been suggested he was the best FB in SL and would make a standoff. I praised ZH for his defensive abilities and first half of the season (last) performances but pointed out his attacking deficiencies with stats to suggest many other FBs had more effective attacking skills.

But he has not backed up his statement with evidence.

He has taken a couple of quotes out of context. The discussion back then was about Hardaker behind other FBs with regard to attacking skills and not that there were 8 better all round FBs in SL

I do hope you are not called for jury service.

Your just doing an embarrassing back peddle as usual. Loiner81 is correct. You even shed tears when we released BJB because you felt he was a better fullback than Hardaker. Yet you are the one posting about credibility.

I beg to differ. Burgess slight change of direction at speed wrong footed Hardaker who had poorly positioned himself. He should have been in a position to make Burgess go outside him but he had overrun after making the aimless hoof down field to Bowen. However in any case Burgess probably would have been too quick for him on the outside too.




Yes he was out of position. A good fullback should be tracking the ball carrier just inside the attackers running line forcing him to go outside and making sure he can intercept before the line. In this case Hardaker was way out of position and so had to run full tilt for far too long a distance and Williams was too quick (and too strong) for him.




Bowen had a major influence on the outcome of game with 2 tries and 1 crucial try assist and was therefore the more effective fullback despite all Hardakers hard work. Bowen didn't just make 2 more metres than Zak he made them from fewer carries so the minutes on the field are irrelevant. Bowen averaged 16.23m per carry and ZH 13.93m/carry



Hardaker made one more clean break than Bowen and tackle busts are good but more important is what you do with the ball after you bust a tackle. One of Hardakers's off loads was a wild one that put Handley under pressure and which then cost us a length of the field crucial Bowen try.



There was not a yawning gap. Bowen drew in Watkins (who should have slid out as there was help inside him) and released Burgess with a perfect pass. So credit to Bowen. Passing is not one of Hardaker's strong points so I would say it more like 100% that he would have tried another bust and died with the ball.

As much as i like Hardaker and would not swap him for any other FB in SL for his defensive one on on qualities alone; these are valid points.
It is of course unfair to highlight Zak's deficiencies when so many others performed far worse including Watkins who seems to be everybody's "favourite" and escapes any criticism - again i hasten to add i would not swap him OR Moon for any other SL centre.

It IS true that if Zak could learn to pass after his majestic kick returns and safety under the high ball he would make the 'complete' lethal perfect FB....but is that an entirely fair expectation ...of anybody?

Using the word 'embarrassing' is always potentially fraught with difficulty when words are mis-used in a riposte. Words like your/you're and peddle/pedal for example

Interesting IF true. Again then one of McDermott's puzzling questionable tactics. Surely you would always best use your available talent to the full; even if that individual IS known to be leaving at the season's end?

Regarding those two Wigan tries. The Burgess one, Hardaker's on a hiding to nothing there, even if he doesn't slip it's hard to stop a player of that speed running sweetly onto a pass, the fault lay completely with those who allowed him through the line.

For the Williams one, yes he could've/should've been further over. All it would've done though is made Williams mind up to pass to Burgess instead of go himself, and as good as Hardaker and how great he turned and caught Grix the other week, he wouldn't have caught Burgess.

Man of the match awards often go to the player who made the greater impact rather than had the greater overall influence on the game. For example, Ryan Sheridan should have got man of the match in the 1999 Cup Final but can anyone really argue Rivett's influence on the game.

In the 2011 Grand Final Burrow probably wasn't the most dominant player on the pitch (he wasn't on it the whole time) but is there any doubt he had the greatest impact and turned the game?

The Hull game in question we were dreadful in the first half (McGuire in particular) but all were much better in the second, Burrow has an instrumental effect on that.

The point I, and others, are making is had Burrow been given the ball to score those two late tries he'd have had the opportunity to have a fantastically impactful effect upon the outcome of the game, possibly even winning it. That is just as vital to a team's success as the sort of Peacock/Cuthbertson stint. Burrow can, and still, provide that impact. I don't think many others in our squad can.

Just on the Burgess try, he got done by a big man with speed and evasion which was great to watch. The try wasn't down to Hardaker anyway, but the ambling broken kick-chase which enabled Bowen to make good yards and then pick how he'd get Burgess away with absolute ease. Hardaker may think he could have done better, but IMO the entire right side defence was dire well before it got to him.

Poor numbering to start with. Can't remember who it was, but the third man in let Bowen get onto his outside shoulder, which pulled in I think it was Watkins to deal with Bowen and left Handley two on one.

Unfortunately, rather than crashing inside to take out the immediate threat he opted to stay out on the widest player and left a massive hole for Burgess to stroll through.

Came from one of a sequence of pretty aimless kicks though. Hard to structure a kick-chase if you've absolutely no idea where the ball is going.

Ablett at fault really for the Burgess try. We had Handley, Watkins, Aiton and Ablett over that side for the kick chase but Ablett dawdled and was was a yard or two behind the others instead of inline with them. And wasn't because of the quality of the kick, he just got lazy running up with his teammates.

The third man in was JJB (I think) and he looked to have Bowen covered from inside but Bowen was running a good angle at pace and Watkins, instead of sliding out, got drawn in to tackle Bowen who with perfect timing release Burgess who broke the line in the gap left by Watkins and with a slight change of direction at full speed wrong footed Hardaker who had overrun by 2 metres where he should have been. Class play by both Bowen and Burgess.

See the highlights on the superleague site.

rlhttps://www.superleague.co.uk/sltv/slhighlights#rl

I agree that the kick was long and aimless and went straight to Bowen who ran back at speed and purpose to link with Burgess so I would say more of a Watkins error than a kick chase error. IMO Watkins looked a bit slack in defense for their first try too.