Cringeworthy thread.

Is it though? It seems to be the cool thing now on this board to fit in with the rest in that anybody who dares question the squad or coach is hounded as knee-jerking and overreacting. We are scoring less, conceding more, out of the challenge cup, lost the WCC and now very, very unlikely to win the league leaders shield. So far this season our 'best squad ever' has failed in what should have been 3 out of 4 targets. Yes, maybe over ambitious to expect us to win them all but yet again we await October to save the season after what can only be described as a failure to reach the objectives which would've been set at the start of the season.

We have now lost arguably our best and most in form back with what looks like a lengthy lay-off and our key prop also added to the long-term list. There is now complacency imo that 'oh it doesn't matter we'll win the GF' but is that really achievable given the injuries and apparent lack of quality replacements? Again, this post will be taken apart by the supposed big shots who patrol the board to ensure everyone is conforming to their agenda and anybody challenging such will be treated as a 't' or 'kneejerker'. It seems our chairman and coach can now do little wrong despite the fact a team meant to be one of the biggest and best in the world has been unable to sustain a challenge in the league but still due to the experience of the team peak at the end of the season. The squad should be refreshed where we are able to compete throughout the whole season and peak at the end, after all we are Leeds Rhinos. We should be a team that is feared but it seems now many players have become parodies of themselves due to a complacency in team selection, recruitment and now the fans. We have Mcguire who has become on the whole innefective, burrow who has been found out, Bailey who seems only contributes to the penalty count and now 'solid' Kirke who at 31 and described as a player to 'give others a breather' has been rewarded with a two year contract.

Again, I know exactly how this post will be dealt with, in a condescending and predictable manner with the usual Southstander buzz words thrown in. I personally think there is some avoidance of some issues which look to be coming to the surface. For a club the size, stature and power of Leeds i'm surprised at the overall acceptance if the fact we've become a team which can only peak at the end of the season, and now more than ever with key players ageing and not being rested or obvious replacements lined up it being less obvious wether we can pull it off again.

I'm not calling for everyone to run to panic stations but certainly questions do need to be asked about why an OVERALL decline in playing standards in the last two seasons is ignored. Ultimately we want to win the Grandfinal but do so in a less and less convincing manner and what appears to be at the expense of other competitions.

Excellent post.

To top it all off the CEO has gone from questioning whether this team had run it's course a year ago this weekend with the implied threat that players would be discarded whether contracted or not to now twelve months on having them all signed up for 2014 and already intimating there'll be no new arrivals.

Leeds were once an ambitious club going places now the signs are that of a complacent club happy to rest on their laurels as supporters drift away.

Yes, to suggest that anyone should consider writing off the season in June is cringeworthy, IMO.

Who set these targets?

Players get injured. For all teams. To suggest anyone should consider writing off a season because of injuries sustained in May suggests that whoever feels that way doesn't possession the testicular fortitude our players have shown so regularly over so many seasons, even in championships earned when their team mates have been injured.

Who is complacent? I haven't ready anything about players throwing any towels in, just a few "fans"

Ah that old chestnut. State your opinion and set the precedent that if its' cgallenged the challenger is a bully.

Who proclaimed it the biggest and the best in the world? I suspect a few fans have gotten a little carried away. If the CEO has built up the squad in the press the good for him. Fans are foolhardy and fickle. After all, most on here didn't need any encouragement from the CEO to call the 2010 trophy less squad the best ever before a ball was kicked,

What on earth does. "after all we are Leeds Rhinos" mean? Our fans possessed such an arrogant outlook before this CEO took over and made us a force, not a laughing stock.

The only parodies connected with this club are its supporters who continually indulge in this rubbish every May and June.

Seems to me you have little confidence in your opinions.

By whom and why do you think that?

The glass has been half empty for you during the last few championship seasons.

Christ knows how you made in through the eighties and nineties.

The explanation of how I made it through the 80's and 90's is fairly straight-forward, I fell in love with the sport in the late 60's and I've continued in the same vein ever since. I'm a Leeds and Great Britain supporter first and foremost but happy to acknowledge good play both for and against my own chosen teams whenever I see it, indeed many of my favourite games and most memorable incidents came in games where Leeds didn't feature at all.

I freely admit to not being satisfied but it's born out of a desire for the club I support to be the best 'it' can be. If people are happy to settle for less (I don't understand that mentality) but that is entirely up to them.

Don't worry about it folks, you'll all be back to buy a season ticket in November.

wholesale changes are not needed but a few new faces, especially in the pack, is a must for me.
a top class rough, sh*thouse prop and second row would make a massive amount of difference.
very little go forward so burrow, sinfield and the rest are trying to work off the back foot.
a bit of tweaking here and there and we'll be fine

So Gareth to answer your questions,

I would agree to suggest things will not improve would be stupid - what will improve will be the results 2 games against Widnes, 2 against Wakefield, and Salford, Castleford, London to come but what is unlikely to improve is the quality on the field and this is a concern. However the real test will be Huddersfield, Warrington, Saints and Wigan away.

The team have consistently said the the WCC was an early season target, finishing higher in the league i.e. top has also been stated and winning the CC was always the target of the team - are you saying that these weren't targets at all and all the talk was just guff?

Fans are reacting to what they see on the pitch - which for two and seasons has been pretty poor and the standard this year is worse than it has been in the previous two. Law of averages suggests the increased level of performance in September and October cannot be maintained. Huddersfield showed in the CC that the aura re Leeds in big games is beginning to fade away. Given that the squad has been re-signed for next season and in most cases the next two seasons, it is difficult to see how this situation will do anything but get worse.

Leeds is one of the two biggest clubs in SL, it has a biggest supporter base, the best access to youngsters and the largest revenue stream this side of the pennines, it should be able to put a side out that can compete with the likes of Huddersfield. You really have to question how a player as poor as Vickery is getting a game at Leeds. Are supporters really arrogant is suggesting a certain level of play should be possible given all the advantages Leeds have over their rivals?

This board is full of posters who think they can bully others - and all this s, owned crap is symptomatic of those behaviours. The fact that many on here crumble as soon as their views are challenged says more about them than the bullying, arrogant attitude of those who challenge in that way.

You have to admire what Hetherington has achieved during his time at Leeds but I personally think his loyalty to this group of players is an issue. In any sphere in life if you stand still you will get passed by those prepared to change things up - good organisations do not rest on their laurels they strive for Kaizen. The bigger question for me is not whether Leeds are going win yet another GF but when is quality on the field going to take a turn for the better and what are the club going to do to make that happen?

Good on Sibbs, TVOC and Sal Paradise for sticking to their guns, they get the issue and I agree with all the points made. I did not make the original post to attack my team, I have also followed them for over 50 years and I love Leeds, I wish Maggs and all the old guard well, they have been the best Leeds team I have ever seen, that said the important words are 'have been'!!!
Nothing stays the same, I accept we cannot always be at the top of SL and this would not be good for SL or Sky, however we should strive to be the best we can. To that end in my opinion we need to phase in and develop a number of new players immediately, sadly the serious injuries we have sustained should bring this process forward as a matter or urgency.

Looking from the outside, what I can't understand is that the two teams who contested last years U20 final have been the most reluctant to give those young players some first team rugby, especially as those two sides probably have more 30+ year olds than any others.

It worked just over a decade ago



Maybe it would help if the club gave the coach a five year contract with a remit to grab the bull by the horns and make the use of what there is in the academy for the remainder of this season with the full support of a spend up to the salary cap for next season.

In return by the end of 2014 there should be a whole new first team built around Ward and Sutcliffe as main pivots (if good enough after a [ilengthy[/i opportunity to establish themselves) but new signings if not. By the start of 2015 the team should be challenging for honours and a review made then as to whether to extend or terminate the contract.

Either way somebody needs to be thinking about the unpalatable job of begining to offload some of the greatest team members to have ever worn the blue & amber. Kirke could have been a good start; Bailey instead might be the one.