And might I suggest the myth that Wayne Bennett is some sort of tactical genius. If Shaun Wane or Brian Mac had come up with that one they'd have got hammered.

Spot on.
I was looking why Watkins missed the tackle to let Inglis in only to realise he had packed down at SR which was well exploited by Australia.
On another note why did Watkins ar$e fall out when Cronk pushed him twice after the late tackle?
Watkins should have grabbed the little scrote by the throat instead of backing off.
Whilst I don`t want him belting Cronk he should have shown a bit more bottle especially as the penalty had already gone against him.
I`m sure Inglis would have done had it been the other way round.

He should have given Cronk a slap. It's a test match.
England didn't number up properly for Inglis's try. It was a big blind side, there was no chance the breaking forwards would get across. Widdop's best option was to defend one across on the outside of Inglis and force him in towards the breaking forwards. He was never going to stop him defending in to out with that much space and so close to the line.

yep, Same when all the Aussies laid into Graham for an accidental head clash with Thaiday and everybody watched on. Couldn't have imagined Paul Dixon, Barrie McDermott, Adrian Morley etc... having taken that back in the day! too much respect shown to these Aussies throughout, we refuse to rattle their cages even these days which is quite sad to see.

I think Bateman was the only one who supported Graham at that time.
Good for Bateman he didn`t take a step back (as usual)

Good point. Bateman was excellent in defence and hit hard. One of the few to not look in awe of them.

If he was the size of JP he'd be terrifying.

What tactics are in 4 drives and a kick?

True and one of the few players who punches above his weight.

It is but no more so than at club level where the same gentlemanly conduct applies. I guess that, and the increasingly injury risk-averse way that the game's played, stems from having paper-thin squads. Who can afford to have players banned or injured?

Given the season Watkins just had, in which he played in virtually every game for at times the worst team in SL, it was always going to be a big ask for him to pull up trees in the Four Nations.

Fair enough, he's an individual, and should have been able to perform at this level, but he's hardly been able to develop much as a player in the last 12 months under the circumstances. He's simply become unused to playing in a well-functioning team (comparing England to Leeds!). The same applies to Hall, who looked pretty flat by his standards in the games I saw.

I don't think either Watkins or Hall let themselves down badly in the Four Nations, but they should have been able to offer a lot more. Perhaps a better season for Leeds in 2017 will provide a better platform for Watkins in the World Cup? He's still in a better position than any other English centre that I know of.

I don't particularly get worked up over us losing. There is a gap but I don't think it's as big as some people do.

What annoys me is the way that we lose. With a whimper. We need much, much more aggression in my opinion. If that boils over occasionally and we end up with a man in the sin bin then meh I don't really care. I think if we just sit back and try and outplay we're going to struggle. I think we need to get stuck in and tvvat em. Try and put them off their game in a way that Wigan have done to Leeds a few times recently.

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agreed mate. we are not a million miles away.too much respect summed up by the the desperate scrap for swapping jerseys after the game, although that doesn't bother me. we can beat the kiwis, we should have beaten them first up playing average by tue way,so why do we struggle so much with the Aussies? we need to find the formula the kiwis found in 2005 and maybe we can finally overcome that aura!

Ah, the final stage of introspection finally arrived at after the latest international humiliation.

<applies blinkers>

We aren't that far behind, honest!

We can beat the Aussies.

We can and do beat the Kiwis (at home, anyway).

It's all good.

When does SL kick off?

we are of course all suckers...

one more round?