Never forget Rohan’s immortal words at the beginning of the season, “Training’s overrated for some of these dudes”.

You are right early on in your post when you refer to these lads as “younger players”. They are not kids, and like you say they need to be playing if there’s a chance they will figure long term with the club. Ruan is already 21 and both Edgell and Sinfield will be 20 years old by play off time. We can either waste time and money by clogging the squad up with players that are taking a wage with little chance of playing, or let them have an extended run and see if they are worth the squad number. There’s never been a better time.

At least Cas gave Wigan a game and a challenge.
Hull looked like they would never win again this season up to last Saturday and Leeds abject pathetic attitude gave them confidence that they built on to finish the game looking like giants against minnows

It’s funny that people go on about Oledski but if you offered Grix Oledski for any of his forwards he would laugh in your face

Oledski was probably our best forward but he would struggle to get into most other SL 1st 13

The only player in Leeds kit who looked like he had talent was Croft who is mired by a pathetic pack led by clueless Smith.

Rohan Smith would struggle to motivate the local girls under 9s team.

Yet another stunning appointment of Gawwy “Total incompetent” Hetherington. But let the trolls on here come to his defence with Oh Gawwy saved our club. That’s in the past now trolls

I don`t get it with Sinfield.
Played this year and did reasonably well.
Frawley who was dropped for Sinfield then comes back into the team at Sinfields expense only to have a couple of bad games.
Just let Sinfield play instead of Frawley.
Smith at LF who I thought was our best player last year is doing nothing at LF.
Let TNW or O`Connor play at LF.
I personally would play Smith at prop.
Same goes for Goudemand who isn`t exactly setting the world alight so give Ruan a chance.

On one hand we should always be trying to take silverware all the time; however in real world we look well under par this year. Things can change, but if we aren't tracking much better after the next block of games, I would absolutely start preparing the ground for 2025. We have some younger players who need some exposure at first grade, in order to set expectations before the next pre-season I think.

The reason Sinfield isn't in the side already is his D. Again, it's OK saying "give him a chance", but if you were coach with our crowd baying for your blood, are you going to take risks like that? Any opposition will target Jack.

I'm not sure that the "one runner, one organiser" approach in the halves is actually valid to be honest, but I get your point.

I still wave between thinking we're mostly OK and just need some additional key players; and thinking most of this Leeds side actually just isn't as good as we want to believe...

If you a coach under pressure - the last thing you are going to do is take risks - if you play all your most experienced players and it doesn't work that is one area of challenge dealt with.

Frawley is not up to the job, but whoever plays halfback will have Cameron Smith dictating play most of the time, not them.

Cameron Smith is so slow both mentally and physically in game time. The less he has his hands on the ball the better matters will be. Reached his peak three years ago and has gone backwards ever since. Over-hyped as a youngster a bit like Morgan Smith and has never trained on. You have to question what the coaching at Leeds does to these young blokes

It's not all about coaching. We need individuals who actively want to push themselves to higher and higher levels. Someone like Handley is a case in point. Smith and Newman seem to be going the wrong way.

I'll swap him for Pele and Okunbor. 2 for 1

I think Cam Smith is a pivotal player - when he's on form Leeds look way better, when he isn't we tend to lose.

Will be a brave call but I think Gannon might make a better 13, I've said for a while I think he could be in the big/mobile/skilful 13 mode like a Farrell or Sculthorpe (not expecting him to be as good as they were). We also have Cassell coming through who is quality. Smith will have some pressure for sure going forward.

Most of us are on the same page but our pack has been exposed this year. If we are serious about winning titles again, we need to put together the best pack in the league. This is what annoys me about Leeds, we waste money and effort on project players constantly, while our competitors out-sign us. Most of the players who've left us have descended into mediocrity; one or two like Dupree and Walters were losses as players. We are going to have to sign the best players if we want to be the best again, and we should have as much money as Wigan or Saints do to achieve that - it's the judgement that has been lacking as much as anything.

I agree Jim, i think Gannon has the potential to be a very good 13. He's got good ball handling skills and very athletic with good power.