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Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "There's a reason you have to keep on thinking up examples that are different to the one in question.

I'm afraid it does make a difference. If a player strikes the ball at another player, causing is to ricochet off him and into touch, the first player shall concede the scrum by virtue of having played at it. It really isn't rocket science.'"


Ah, the return of Electricdildoslidingwarrior, talking e again.

A player being hit by a kicked ball, without playing at it, and the situation on Saturday are worlds apart. Both players were chasing a ball with intent to recover it, it hit Burrow and then Charnley. By chasing the ball Charnley was, by definition, playing for it.

Otherwise, at what point do you consider that he was trying to recover the ball?

The call was wrong but, on this occassion it went your way, enjoy the win and stop embarassing yourself.

"Rocket science" [guffaw] from the person who bemoans keyboard intellectuals!

I'll give you an hour or so to consult your Thesaurus for some good words. icon_wink.gif

EDIT: having just had the gumption to look at the video on iPlayer, Charnley clearly plays the ball, so all this is a complete red herring.

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[b:1swa1vwo]Change is inevitable ...except from a vending machine![/b:1swa1vwo] [quote="BillyRhino":1swa1vwo]So in best IA mode ..<.Possibley World Class, could be the greatest thing since sliced bread....am personally very excited, and confidently expect him to prove my predictions are bang on target.... Alternatively he could be rubbish> IA mode off. :wink:[/quote:1swa1vwo]:33791.jpg



Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "There's a reason you have to keep on thinking up examples that are different to the one in question.

I'm afraid it does make a difference. If a player strikes the ball at another player, causing is to ricochet off him and into touch, the first player shall concede the scrum by virtue of having played at it. It really isn't rocket science.'"


The reason people use other examples is because they are genuine examples of interpretation of exactly the same rule. Why are you not able to make what actually happened 'fit' the common interpretation of the law. Err, because it doens't fit by chance!

But they both played at it. They both set off with the clear intention of playing for the ball, the rule is clear as is the definition of ricochet/rebound.

Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "Ricochet/Rebound - See Accidental Strike'"


Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "ACCIDENTAL STRIKE - when a ball strikes a player who makes no attempt to play at the ball.'"


But he did make an attempt to play at the ball, just a split second before Burrow did, it doesn't say anything about actually playing the ball, it just says "who makes no attempt to play at the ball" but he that is exactly what he was trying, and failed to do as part of that play. Charnley suddenly can't opt out of the play because he find himself in the way of the path of the ball.

The simple example I used for Keith on another thread is "You know when you were little and had a race with your mates but, having 'lost' at the finish line you then declare you were never actually really properly racing in the first place, so their victory clear doesn't count!"

This is exactly what you are suggesting, that Charnley can suddenly 'opt out' because he failed to his intention of playing the ball and become passive in the play... he can't, simple!

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[quote="Harrigan":1th0f7ap]Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.[/quote:1th0f7ap] [quote="NickyKiss":1th0f7ap]As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel![/quote:1th0f7ap] [url=http://twitter.com/#!/theegw:1th0f7ap]@TheEGW[/url:1th0f7ap] [url=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsnX1esHN2wkEC1FxcO2TCg:1th0f7ap]YouTube Channel[/url:1th0f7ap]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44920.png



Quote: Ronzy "Ah, the return of Electricdildoslidingwarrior, talking poop again. '"

Hey I'm all for a bit of banter mate but keep it clean eh? After all, you were pointing out how harmful a V sign could be for a family game with youngsters involved weren't you, and you don't want to be thought of as a hypocrite. Oh I'm enjoying the win mate and the reaction of opposition fans that has accompanied it. The sheer frenzy of bitterness that has erupted is both a joy and privilege to experience.

Oh by the way, if I don't immediately respond to your posts, say, between the hours of 9 and 5, there might be a very good reason for that other than consulting a thesaurus. We can't all be on 7 weeks holidays you know. c020.gif

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Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "Hey I'm all for a bit of banter mate but keep it clean eh? After all, you were pointing out how harmful a V sign could be for a family game with youngsters involved weren't you, and you don't want to be thought of as a hypocrite.
Yes, I can see the juxtaposition between disappointment at someone showing a complete lack of respect on national TV, whilst embarassing the game that provides him with a living, and using the word "dildo" on an internet forum. No, really.

Two things:

1) Charnley actually plays for the ball before and at the point it leaves the field. Check it out for yourself.

2) By placing himself at the side of Burrow and challenging for the recovery of the ball Charnley was playing for it. Otherwise, at what point does he stop playing for it and become an innocent by stander?

Past experience would suggest that you will now argue that the Pope is not Catholic and that bears use public conveniences.

I have noted some bitterness but, not that much and I think you'll find that I haven't posted anything which would be considered bitter. We lost to a very good team who, on the balance of play, probably deserved their victory. In addition, I admire the skills of the Tomkins brothers et al. However, their lack of respect and class is more than a little disappointing.

Oh, and before you or some other Kn0b Jockey mentions the booing at Headingley, niether I or anyone I know who are fans booed him at the Exiles game. In any event, he is the player, it is part of his job requirement to behave in a better manner than any fan.

With the foregoing in mind I find it strange that you revel in the angst of opposition fans where you find it.

My problem with you in the first place was that you were defending the indefensible and trying to be clever in doing so.

If you don't find the attitudes and opinions of the the Leeds fans to your liking, here is a clue, don't come on here. I'd bet good money that you were not on Southstander after the play off wins in 2007 and 2008 or last year's cup loss at Headingley. Now why would that be?

As you have freely admitted, the truth is that you aren't really trying to express reasoned debate, you're just a sad little git who enjoys winding people up and when you get something back you don't like it. On that basis, I never figured you would actually have a job and I'm still not so sure you do................

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[quote="Harrigan":1th0f7ap]Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.[/quote:1th0f7ap] [quote="NickyKiss":1th0f7ap]As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel![/quote:1th0f7ap] [url=http://twitter.com/#!/theegw:1th0f7ap]@TheEGW[/url:1th0f7ap] [url=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsnX1esHN2wkEC1FxcO2TCg:1th0f7ap]YouTube Channel[/url:1th0f7ap]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44920.png



Quote: Ronzy "Yes, I can see the juxtaposition between disappointment at someone showing a complete lack of respect on national TV, whilst embarassing the game that provides him with a living, and using the word "dildo" on an internet forum. No, really.'"

Nevertheless, the obvious conclusion to draw is that you were displaying faux disapproval for the sake of joining in with some good old Tomkins bashing.

Quote: Ronzy "Two things
Obviously I've already checked it out and disagree with you. At the point it leaves the field the ball has merely ricocheted off him.

Quote: Ronzy "2) By placing himself at the side of Burrow and challenging for the recovery of the ball Charnley was playing for it. Otherwise, at what point does he stop playing for it and become an innocent by stander? '"

The ball ricocheted off him. It doesn't matter where he is or where he has put himself; if it did then there would never actually be a situation in any game in which the officials have to determine whether a player has played at the ball as intent to play would be established via contiguity. It isn't, no matter how much you repeat that it is.

Quote: Ronzy "I have noted some bitterness but, not that much and I think you'll find that I haven't posted anything which would be considered bitter. We lost to a very good team who, on the balance of play, probably deserved their victory. In addition, I admire the skills of the Tomkins brothers et al. However, their lack of respect and class is more than a little disappointing.'"

You might be taken a little more seriously if you yourself didn't display a lack of respect and class.

Quote: Ronzy "Oh, and before you or some other Kn0b Jockey'"

Respect and class you say?

Quote: Ronzy "mentions the booing at Headingley, niether I or anyone I know who are fans booed him at the Exiles game. In any event, he is the player, it is part of his job requirement to behave in a better manner than any fan. '"

I don't disagree with any of that and have maintained throughout that what he did was wrong and I'm sure we're all glad that he has been punished for it.

Quote: Ronzy "With the foregoing in mind I find it strange that you revel in the angst of opposition fans where you find it.

My problem with you in the first place was that you were defending the indefensible and trying to be clever in doing so. '"

You don't like clever people, do you? I'd wager, going by the way you made quite an issue of my supposed lack of intelligence, that feeling intellectually superior is very important to you, and that you need to convince yourself, through your childishly insulting posts, that other people are stupid. In my experience I've found those who make the most noise about their intellect and the supposed stupidity of others aren't nearly as sure of their own intellect (or validity of the arguments they are making) as they like to make out.

Quote: Ronzy "If you don't find the attitudes and opinions of the the Leeds fans to your liking, here is a clue, don't come on here.'"
NewsflashI'd bet good money that you were not on Southstander after the play off wins in 2007 and 2008 or last year's cup loss at Headingley. Now why would that be?'"

Well considering I only joined this forum in 2009 , no I wasn't. Your point?

Quote: Ronzy "As you have freely admitted, the truth is that you aren't really trying to express reasoned debate, you're just a sad little git who enjoys winding people up and when you get something back you don't like it. On that basis, I never figured you would actually have a job and I'm still not so sure you do................'"

What an odd thing to claim. I understand that it's comforting to you to pretend that nobody would hold an opinion different to yours and that anybody posting to that effect is actually pretending in order to "wind people up" (seriously though, does any body get wound up by a different opinion? I wouldn't have though they would, myself.) but "the truth is" that I simply don't agree with your point of view. Shock horror.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: nohalfbacks "It makes a big difference that it came off Burrow. He made the play at the ball and it then bounced off Charnley, hence Wigan scrum.'"

Nope, it makes no difference at all as to whether Charnley played at it.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "
The ball ricocheted off him. It doesn't matter where he is or where he has put himself; if it did then there would never actually be a situation in any game in which the officials have to determine whether a player has played at the ball as intent to play would be established via contiguity. It isn't, no matter how much you repeat that it is.
.'"
This shows just as much a lack of understanding of the rule and its reasoning as your description of the effect momentum has on the forward pass rule did.
Let me educate you on both. The Momentum rule is simply the name given by Stevo for RL's acceptance that a player running forward, by virtue of running forward will exert a force on the ball causing it to go forward when released despite the fact that the force exerted through the action of passing was backwards. This can cause an effect where a ball passed backwards ends up ahead of the point it was passed because of the force of the forward motion of the player not because the ball was passed forwards. This is why a referee will look at the hands of the player and the passing action of the player to determine weather or not the ball was passed forwards. This is why to a more seasoned observer Mossops pass was so obviously forward, his hands and his passing action were clearly forward.

Secondly: The reason the rule was put in place whereby a richochet/rebound/etc causing accidental contact with the player didnt result in that player being disadvantage was that so a player who hadnt involved himself in the play and wasnt attempting to do so couldnt be punished by the opposition deliberately or on accident playing the ball against them to gain advantage. It isnt there to protect a player who had involved himself in the play and not been successful. Charnley played at the ball, he played at the ball by attempting to strike it prior to Burrow and he played at it by continuing to involve himself in the play after that.

There is no immediacy of the play at the ball either inferred or implied in the rules.

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Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "Nevertheless, the obvious conclusion to draw is that you were displaying faux disapproval for the sake of joining in with some good old Tomkins bashing.

Obviously I've already checked it out and disagree with you. At the point it leaves the field the ball has merely ricocheted off him.

The ball ricocheted off him. It doesn't matter where he is or where he has put himself; if it did then there would never actually be a situation in any game in which the officials have to determine whether a player has played at the ball as intent to play would be established via contiguity. It isn't, no matter how much you repeat that it is.

You might be taken a little more seriously if you yourself didn't display a lack of respect and class.

Respect and class you say?

I don't disagree with any of that and have maintained throughout that what he did was wrong and I'm sure we're all glad that he has been punished for it.

You don't like clever people, do you? I'd wager, going by the way you made quite an issue of my supposed lack of intelligence, that feeling intellectually superior is very important to you, and that you need to convince yourself, through your childishly insulting posts, that other people are stupid. In my experience I've found those who make the most noise about their intellect and the supposed stupidity of others aren't nearly as sure of their own intellect (or validity of the arguments they are making) as they like to make out.

Newsflash

As I strongly suspected, the Pope is indeed an Anglican and bears have wet rooms.

Charnley played for that ball twice with his foot, once before Burrow touched and once afterward. Furthermore, if what you are saying is correct, a player could position themselves anywhere and any how they like to interupt play and not expect to concede possession. It would appear that your backside and brain are insufficiently far apart.

The fact that you disagree is no shock to me, as I fully anticipated you have come back with the same argument that you have already used and you have a right to your opinion, even if it is wrong. News flash

You have always maintained that what he did was wrong and went to great lengths to point that out with a string of excuses and justifications for his actions. I doubt very much that you are glad he has been punished for it, moreover, I bet you are delighted that the subject of your affections will be playing this weekend.

Your not very clever and I don't like what I have seen of you, so clearly I am not prejudiced.

We both know that had you lost on Saturday, you wouldn't be on this forum but, you'll no doubt tell me that you would have revelled in the unbridled joy of the Leeds fans as they discussed their famous victory. The more I think about it, the more I like you, you make me laugh.

Finally, the coup de grace! Having stated clearly in one post that you are enjoying the bitterness and angst of the Leeds fans, you intermate that you actually don't come on here to gain any pleasure from it. d040.gif

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This is almost as long as TVOC and Juan Cornetto talking about aeroplanes! icon_lol.gif

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Soon we will be dancing the Fandango FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB'S DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESS THEN I DONT KNOW WHAT IS. JAMIE PEACOCK:



Quote: Damo-Leeds "This is almost as long as TVOC and Juan Cornetto talking about aeroplanes! aeroplanes under the pseudonym of Wilf Rosenberg at that too icon_lol.gif

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This is in my eyes, is pointless dicussing.

What happened, happened. We lost.

Let's move on.

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[quote="Harrigan":1th0f7ap]Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.[/quote:1th0f7ap] [quote="NickyKiss":1th0f7ap]As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel![/quote:1th0f7ap] [url=http://twitter.com/#!/theegw:1th0f7ap]@TheEGW[/url:1th0f7ap] [url=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsnX1esHN2wkEC1FxcO2TCg:1th0f7ap]YouTube Channel[/url:1th0f7ap]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44920.png



Quote: Ronzy "As I strongly suspected, the Pope is indeed an Anglican and bears have wet rooms.

Charnley played for that ball twice with his foot, once before Burrow touched and once afterward. Furthermore, if what you are saying is correct, a player could position themselves anywhere and any how they like to interupt play and not expect to concede possession.'"
If that's the conclusion you've come to you have completely failed to understand my position. It wouldn't matter if a player had run 90m downfield to gain possession of the ball, if his opponent gains possession first and strikes him with the ball he will not be deemed to have played it.

Quote: Ronzy "It would appear that your backside and brain are insufficiently far apart. '"
How [ido [/iyou come up with this dynamite material.

Quote: Ronzy "The fact that you disagree is no shock to me, as I fully anticipated you have come back with the same argument that you have already used and you have a right to your opinion, even if it is wrong. News flash
Whereas your opinion that I am wrong and that my position is one of obvious bias is apparently self-evident. sleepy.gif

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Quote: Omar Little "Seriously can you just go away now and let us have our forum back
If the thus far ability to contradict himself is anything to go by, you may find that he will be here arguing with himself before too long. I get no pleasure from shooting fish in a barrel.

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he's just a boring hick trying justify all the last wekend

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