I think according to the letter of the rules you'd be correct - a knock on does appear to be by definition unintentional (otherwise we wouldn't need a distinct forward pass rule would we?)

OK, but you're simply moving from referees deciding whether there was enough time between knock-on and drop kick, to deciding whether a kicker meant to kick it. It's still a matter of discretion which is wide open to criticism.

EDIT - I meant to quote Smokey.

You're not wrong - but isn't that a fairer measure and one which is the same regardless of the presence of a video ref?

(not to mention one with actually has basis in the written rules of the game...as a lawyer that's sort of important to me )

I was giving the reason as to why I interpreted mcdermotts comment the way I did. I am sorry, enlighten me to your knowledge and experience? I can only judge on what you type.

I think the question of whether a player is set for a kick or responding a dropped ball is a fairly obvious answer.

I often see players responding to a dropped ball by desperately hacking at it before it hits the ground. How would you judge those scenarios?

A player who responds to dropping a ball by desperately hacking at it before it hits the ground has clearly kicked the ball before it hits the ground. Play on.

As i said the difference I would make is where the benefit of doubt lies, if a player is making a deliberate attempt at kicking the ball the benefit lies on his side, ala Mcguire, If a player is responding to a deliberate hacking of the ball, the responsibility to make sure that the ball is kicked before it hits the ground.

Can you tell me how you would differentiate between drop-kicks and poorly executed grubbers?

More importantly - why did all you guys not turn up to support your team tonight? Have faith Leeds will come good and were unlucky not to win that tonight.

I think the difference between a player setting themselves for a kick and responding to a dropped ball is much clearer than whether a ball hit the ground before, after or at the same time as a player kicks it. Especially when we have a rule that a ball must be kicked at the same time, not before or after.

If there is doubt of the kickers intention, the BoD rests with the attacking play.

Id certainly be more comfortable with Mcguires try being given and we are debating whether or not he meant to kick, than it not being given and us sat here debating whether less than a frame of film constitutes too much time between it hitting the floor and him kicking it to counts as simultaneous.

My answer is in my sig - the 2nd installment of my front row due any day.

A trip to deepest darkest Lancashire is a major no-no.

You were doing so well.....right up to [i"I thought he spoke well as he often does, "[/i

I'd quit before someone mentions his infamous half time speeches....

Like I have said though, what is the difference between a drop-kick and a poorly executed grubber (induced by Tomkins' tackle)?