Check the teamsheet for the 2020 Cup final, old fruit. They played 8, 10, and 13 respectively. No coincidence that they also trampled over Wigan in the semi. We briefly had a decent set of middle forwards. I realise and recognise that GH has made mistakes in recent times, but accusing him of taking years off a man's life seems a wee bit hysterical, not to mention libelous.

Don’t think you quite get me Arthur, take me with a pinch of salt. Obviously they didn’t take years off his life, but he was flogged to death. He played mostly at prop and he never once bust a tackle or put a defender on his backside in his years at Leeds. He played far too many minutes because we didn’t have the required quality props to relieve him. Typical Hetherington, signing back rowers like Bodene Thomson and Donaldson and trying to play them as props. Cheapskate.

Yes just checked the team sheet for he 2022 final Arthur. Donaldson, Walter’s and Bodene Thomson as interchange props. All second rowers, scary men.

ININOUTOUT
So what's your point? I was saying we had two good props alongside Oledski in 2020. Your now talking about 22. Ava was long gone, Prior was 33 or 34, Tetavano was well, Tetavano. Two different teams.

You brought up 2022 not me. Don’t know what you were trying to prove by highlighting the fact that Hetherington’s interchange props for a Grand Final were all second rowers. My point is Ava was a prop sized prop and I don’t think Prior was an orthodox body shape for a prop and was just used to play big minutes without the real impact of a prop. He never broke a tackle, struggled to get us off our line and didn’t damage opposition players. He played big minutes and was involved in lots of tackles, but his impact was reduced because for me he wasn’t an orthodox prop. The only player with the body shape of an orthodox prop in that squad was Ava. That’s my point, Mik wasn’t playing alongside two decent props, he was playing alongside Ava and Prior who did okay considering he wasn’t a traditional prop.

Read my post. I mentioned 2020, when we had two good props to support Oledski You then mentioned 2022. Whether or not you think Prior was orthodox prop is not the point. He was a prop. He played for Cronulla as a prop, he played for NSW as prop. In short - he was a prop. Your opinions are your opinions, but they are not the facts.

My twopenneth is that Mik is obviously our best prop. But he's also not shown he alone is capable of standing up to more physical packs - at any one time we normally have just two props on the field, and in most of our whippings in recent years Mik has been in the mix and completely unable to stem the tide. That's why some fans from other clubs who've had our measure think he's a complete nonentity.

The question is how much better he would look alongside some really decent support. I think he'd look a different player. Right now of all our props he is the one the opposition would target, because he's the best we have - knock him down and the rest turn to jelly. Add a big bruiser who draws in and - heaven forbid - knocks over defenders and suddenly Mik isn't the centre of attention any more.

At least I hope that's the way it works when we do sign some serious big boppers. Mik will never be a blaster of a prop, laying waste to opponents like a peak Walmsley. But he is and will continue to be a very solid workhorse.

My apologies Arthur, just looked back and you did say 2020 initially. Too many Guinness Porters and my reluctance to wear reading glasses meant I saw 2022, hence my confusion and references to said Grand Final. Have a good day.

I never said that - what I am saying is the opinion of Oldeski being a leader to build your pack around is fantasy. He had one good year. His last two seasons have been very poor. If you think there aren't four better props out there that could be included in the squad again I think your view on Oldeski is out of kilter with what we see on the pitch.

The problem is that he hasn't been carrying the pack - his performances are no better than the others. He doesn't make great yards and his tackling has always been suspect. He is part of the problem.

He has been the only prop consistently making 100+ metres all season (and last).

Mik has shown in previous season that when he has some help with decent props he's a quality player.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I suspect BA (and he has said so) see's what Mik can bring to the team especially when fully fit.

Oledski is our best prop by some distance (IMO). He's struggled a bit with form after injuries, but this season he's been very good for the most part, eating up metres. He doesn't make many eye-catching busts through the middle or big hits in defence, and he's not the Peacock-style pack leader we badly need - but he could well develop into that player. He's also not an aggressive enforcer type prop.

I think Oledski would be fine with the right pack around him. Lisone is only good in stints, and while he's looked okay in a few games doing longer minutes under Arthur, he's still as much as likely to be a liability with errors and discipline. Oledski can do the longer minutes and rack up the metres that none of our other forwards can match. We badly need someone like Holroyd to step up to being a longer stint prop in Oledski's mould. The other middles are nothing more than okay - Sangare, Goudemand, Donaldson, and Lisone 70% of the time etc. And that's not good enough for a club of our ambitions.

We also badly lack size and punch in the second row, as has been mentioned every week. I'm more optimistic re: Gannon for next season, although it will be tough for him after so long out. McDonnell is good provided he kicks on. Bentley's a good squad player, it's just a shame he's not a bit bigger. Martin needs to be replaced by a more destructive running type back row.

The player I'm most worried about is Cam Smith - one of our best last season, but doesn't seem to have an obvious role that he can excell at anymore?

Cam Smith is the top tackler in SL by a fair distance - he's simply doing too much work to compensate for some of our other deficiencies

Cam Smith's problems are more fundamental than that. Everything he does is lacking in dynamism. He makes a lot of tackles, but often as second/third man in and he does not stop attackers in their tracks. He is also one of of our many forwards who cannot run the ball in hard. His 'ball handling' is too slow and actively hurts the team half the time.

I just don't see that reducing the number of tackles would make much difference unless he completely changes his physique and approach in the off season to focus on less involvement but with far more impact. If I was Arthur that's what I'd look to try to do, but I think its a long shot for working. I can't remember seeing a forward lacking in oomph suddenly turning his whole style of play around at 26 years old.

We're not going to turn the first team around by pretending that player's faults are because of other players in the squad and not to their own deficiencies. Same goes for Oledzki, Newman and everyone else. If they want to be part of the turnaround they all have to look to themselves first. This off season promises to be the hardest for years for a whole bunch of our squad, and some will not make the grade even with that.

Cam Smith was player of the year last year and should have made the England squad.

He’s had a poor year but I'm not sure why some fans want to write players off so easily. This years off season is huge for some of our players that I agree with.

You say players can’t develop at 26, look at how Elliot Minchella has thrived in a decent side coached well.