Would be great to have back to back good performances, even if we dont win vs wire

I watched it again last night. I'd echo Jack's points - defence much better than against Leigh, actually forcing errors through pressure (who'd have thought?), and the attack had a better structure.

On the downside, mistakes and our lack of size will still lose us games. Goudemand and TNW were ineffective off the bench. Maybe a bit unfair on TNW, but I struggle to see him as a SL player long term at his size. We also still go passive in defence occasionally, as there aren't enough players who are naturally aggressive in defence, and I don't think that will be fixed until we get new players in.

A downside/upside is what that game tells us about Cam Smith. The attack functioned perfectly well without a ball handling 13, which shouldn't surprise anyone as that's the way its been in the NRL forever. I'd imagine Arthur will want him back for his workrate and bulk, but he's awful as a playmaker and I'm not convinced he'll ever make a decent prop as he's not really big enough or dynamic enough for that. We'll see I suppose.

I may be alone in this, but I thought Sangare was surprisingly good in his first stint. I'm not saying he's a long term solution, but his sheer size at least forced the defence to put multiple players into the tackle, and he hit hard a couple of times in defence. But he just doesn't run in with enough aggression or speed, and I can't remember a player with that problem ever fixing it.

It is a test of Arthur's skills as a coach to get more out of those players. Powell did it at Cas with a number of players who seemed to be losing their way; just look at what Peters has done at HKR. Minchella was a journeyman, who is now an England international at a fraction of the size of some of those players.

You're right of course, he won't be able to change out the entire squad, so will have to improve some of the remaining players to get them to the right level. On Elliott, we both know that he always had the ability, he just needed to be in the right environment and stage of his life for things to come together. Coaching is about more than just telling players what to do, it's about creating the culture and environment that facilitates them to do it.

Yes that's correct.
For me the coach needs to set the standard and make sure the players are consistently achieving it or moving towards it.
One thing that stands out for me listening to some of the behind the scenes stuff is how "forthright" Arthur actually is, he knows what he wants and wont take any backsliding. The bit where he says "todays result means nothing if we dont back it up next week" is exactly what you want to hear him drill into the players.
He's also been shrewd enough to come in, look at the game plan and simplify it. We are now not trying to reinvent the wheel, we are doing the basics and despite some lapses we are hopefully moving in the right direction on that front. When we can get these down consistently the flowing attacking RL will be more to the forefront, Arthur knows we have to "Earn the right to play" and from what Ive seen and heard Im impressed with how he wants to go about it.

I get the feeling that Arthur is very much an old school kind of coach, willing to muck in with the players etc to an extent but always keeps a professional distance / separation whereas for right or wrong when we had Rohan in charge it was a bit too "matey"

I don’t think bad luck could be an excuse for Smith’s inability to create a competitive team. Bad luck could be associated with injuries to players, one off game changing decisions or persecution from the authorities resulting in losing players to bans. I think Rohan Smith was guilty of introducing bad practices into training and on the playing field. I actually think if the ruck had been speeded up by the authorities we would have been in massive trouble and even less competitive as a team. We were passive, slow of movement and slow of thought with Rohan in charge. The slow ruck speed excuse was a red herring, just like the “we’ll be better when the pitches firm up” . The wheels may come off for Brad Arthur over the next few weeks, but Rohan Smith had his chance and we were only going one way with this group of players coached by him. I wish him well, but apart from a damn good job of propelling us to the final in 2022 his tenure has been painful and set the club back in ways we may not yet appreciate.

How has Harry Smith got away with only 3 games for a Grade E?
Smashing your forearm into the head of a defenceless player face up on that ground and thats all it warrants? I thought the RFL had made a big song and dance about player welfare, and especially as it was on one that’s spent half the season out suffering with concussion.

Unbelievable

he plays for wigan. Bentley would have got double

Player showed remorse apparently. I mean, he didnt at the time he was adamant he'd done nowt wrong but y'know.

Tbf hes got a clean discipline record that probably saved him a few games also.

They say that “sport mirrors life” and unfortunately in this case it does. In everyday life we have the two tier policing and judiciary system and in Rugby League we have our own two tier officiating and judiciary system. For many years it has become apparent the RFL have been overtly employing a two tier system in officiating and subsequently sanctioning with some absolutely scandalous decisions, particularly in recent games. It’s the main reason I won’t be renewing my season ticket next year. I’ve paid enough money to fund this corruption over the years but it’s reached the tipping point for me.

I more mean it was bad luck his appointment didn't work out rather than his coaching performance. Holbrook and Woolf both had similar backgrounds and pedigrees to RS before they came over, yet their teams flourished. Getting an overseas coach is always a risk, and in this case, it didn't pay off. It doesn't mean he is stupid and incompetent as others suggest though. Things just get way too personal on this site. I actually think RS would be a great coach at somewhere like a London or Toulouse, but certainly not a big SL team like Leeds.

I was happy in Smith’s appointment as coach. Most clubs go down the route of appointing well known coaches that have been around the block and not always successfully, so it was a risk worth taking for me. I suppose there was an element of bad luck that the risk/decision turned out to be so catastrophic, but I don’t see Rohan personally had any bad luck. I’m sorry you feel it gets too personal on this site, you’re a regular contributor to a good forum and I’d like to think we can all agree to disagree. The more people on here the better for me, and if I ever disagree with you it’s nothing personal it’s just the nature of the forum mate.

Thanks for the reply, but I think you've missed my point. I'm not saying people shouldn't disagree, it's what makes the forum interesting. I just think it's over the top people (not necessarily aimed at you), saying that RS is incompetent, stupid and clueless. He's worked in the game for 20 years in some very good set-ups and is well thought of, so it can't be the case.

And I think you've made my point for me. After Holbrook and Woolf, we had reason to be optimistic about the appointment, the bad luck I'm referring to is that this one hasn't worked out. There wasn't much personal bad luck for him, I think RS deserved to be sacked given consistently poor tactical and recruitment decisions. Doesn't mean he's an idiot / stupid though.

I agree with this. It's not like Smith was plucked from utter obscurity. To an extent he rode his luck getting us to the GF, but there was plenty more that could have gone for us that didn't (e.g. not losing Sezer to concussion protocols before the GF, losing Martin to the disciplinary every other week, etc).

Smith had success elsewhere, and for whatever reason, his approach didn't fit Leeds or SL. There's only so much a coach can control. Ultimately IMO Smith's failing was not adapting quickly enough after the 2022 GF run approach stopped bearing fruit. There were mitigating factors in 2023, but doubling down in 2024 was not the right way to go. Arthur is a breath of fresh air, but let's not forget even he had gone stale at Parramatta and didn't have a win-loss record much better than Smith at Leeds.

2023 was a real disappointment. Smith didn't have much cap space to use, but he managed to clear a lot of dead wood - I see no-one is clamouring for Briscoe, Sutcliffe and Dwyer to come back. It's a shame we didn't retain Hardaker for another season, but on the face of it McDonnell, Macdonald, and maybe Lisone were decent signings. Olpherts, Roberts and Hooley were obviously gambles given what little room was left on the cap.

Of the current squad assembled by Smith, I see a lot of people referring to it not being good enough, but which players exactly are letting us down?

IMO, Croft, Miller, McDonnell, and Ackers have been for the most part good signings. Miller has had a few howlers but his game has stabilised under Arthur.

Frawley and Momirovski haven't endeared themselves to everyone, but Frawley's been great under Arthur, and Momirovski looks like he will be a good winger's centre given time and a full pre-season.

Lisone and Bentley (Smith re-signing) have been disappointing for their persistent indiscipline/errors, but they are about the only properly aggressive forwards we have. Upgrades would be good, especially on Lisone.

Fusitu'a and Gannon are potentially first choice players, but perennial injuries have kept them out. The decision to re-sign Fusitu'a looked terrible after the surgery lay-off at the start of the season, and he still can't string many 80 minute performances together.

On the flip-side, Jarrod O'Connor has been a revelation under Smith, even if he's not an out and out hooker. Handley and Martin have been consistently good under Smith too.

Is it the other Leeds boys letting us down? Oledski makes a lot of metres every week, and Cam Smith is (?still) the top tackler in SL. But Oledski is not a pack leader, and Smith has question marks over his role as a ball-playing 13. And then there's the 'superstar' Harry Newman, allegedly on marquee money, who has produced little since signing his last contract - I rarely get the sense that Harry is willing to put his body (and ego) on the line for the team. Smith defended Newman when his discipline was questioned by Sky pundits but Newman still seems more likely to have an on-field argument with a team mate than anyone. Holroyd is another one - feted as the next big thing in the pack but just not at the races when he last played. Is this about attitude, and/or bad luck with injuries?

Maybe a pre-season with Arthur, plus a couple of shrewd additions to the pack, and this team won't be too far off? Or am I seeing this all wrong, and we need another clear-out?

Good post Exeter.