Sethster I was at the game live and I'm just not accepting that we were "miles off" in the first half.

We were miles off in the second half no debate.

There were good moments in the first half and some decent play until our wheels, yet again, fell off. I haven't watched it back on telly yet but my impressions were that we had several (usual) players having a real dig, but we crumbled under pressure and came up with way too many errors again overall.

I'm not straw clutching. I'm rational.

I think you'll be on your own in thinking we were anywhere close in the first half that were were only 6 points down was not a reflection of the balance of play and all the stats were well in their favour. I nearly came on here at half time to say I think we'll get hammered in the second half because of how the first half went.

What was it about the errors made, missed tackles, lack of meters gained, meters conceded and territory that lead you to feel we did ok in that first half?

On the scoreboard, we weren’t miles off at half time, but the energy burning mistakes and lack of territory was already obvious and would hurt us badly in the second half. We had 6 ptb in their 20 for the whole game, that’s not enough for just one half so the foundations of the defeat were already there to see.

I think the majority of the stats worsened considerably in the second half mate, I don't think we have a half-by-half analysis?

We got drubbed what about 30-0 in 40 mins which indicates our stats were a shocker.

We had some really good passages of play (I think Handley butchered a try off the Croft kick TBH), and we did have some good ball in the first half and competed when we were fresh. We fell off alarmingly and then couldn't handle Saints when they smelled blood and went after us.

If I'm alone I'll take it, but I don't think we were miles off in the first half - even if the scoreboard flattered us a little. They only actually scored directly off two crappy mistakes we made, they didn't really bust our D much in the first half IMO.

I just thought with (Batchelor?) and Lomax off we might be able to apply some pressure, but I was sadly wrong. I was so angry with that turgid first 10 mins after half time, but once we lost the game the last 2-3 tries I was just "meh". We got what we deserved again.

Thing is I'm not sure even with Holroyd, Mom and Fus back we win that game. I do think it would have been much tighter though. We have quantity in the squad but the quality isn't there yet.

Sadly Jim I’m pretty certain that With Holroyd , mom and Fusitua back we would still have lost by plenty because we would have still played almost the entire game at the wrong end of the pitch.

We will likely lose the territory battle V Cas but may win if we make far fewer errors because Cas are nowhere near as good as Saints.

The stats were shown on sky at half time and confirmed everything my eyes told me.

I see you've been hoodwinked by the magicians trick of the eye/sleight of hand that is a rhinos early cross field kick.

I agree I said to my mate can't believe we are only 6 behind.We both agreed unless we scored first then it could well be a landslide.

Yeah as we all keep saying, RL is a simple game at heart and if you lose possession/position metrics you're very likely to lose the game on the scoreboard. I'm not a huge Wilkin fan but one thing he said which I totally agreed with, was around us playing the game way, way too tough. We're putting so much pressure on ourselves it's like running through brick walls constantly.

Our lack of field position IMO is multi-factoral: i.e. we lack go-forward in the tackle which is partly a player issue, and partly systemic due to our poor ruck performance and lack of guile in attack. I also don't think the tactic of using three very light backs out of yardage works at all - they are consistently getting smashed which robs us of any momentum.

Also our general kicking from deep is poor - again against Saints we are hoofing the ball down a winger or FBs throat, they're not often even having to move far to collect the ball.

Also errors. I think this is the biggest single problem as I've said before. And this is again why I'm pointing the finger a bit at the players who are making these mistakes, sometimes consistently. Sides like Saints very rarely make these mistakes and we won't compete while we are. For me this is a quality of player issue: coaches do not coach players to drop the ball or miss a tackle. The odd mistake happens of course but for us it's systemic.

Hey I like that, it works a treat if you can execute it - but of course it isn't a substitute for doing the basics well and earning field position. It should be the icing on the cake rather than the cake...

Sadly the errors were (are) being spread across the 13 individuals on the field, more or less the same for penalties. This puts us constantly on the back foot, and it was happening throughout the first half against Saints and worse in the second. The 'passive defence' is a myth, at least for this season. Rather, it is a necessity forced by our inability to hold the ball - if we constantly give the opposition repeat sets what else can they do? If we're giving penalties away for offside every game that's not a sign of being passive.

I agree that the coach needs to take some responsibility when this has become such a systemic problem, but ultimately professional players should not be making as many errors. Pressure is building on the players, confidence is low, and there are some bad attitudinal signs from some individuals (e.g. Newman, Lisone etc).

Yep. Frawley's intercept pass - was kindof unlucky because the vision was there and Handley would have been away. It's always dodgy trying to pass in contact though and the Saints defender spoiled the pass, 12 point turnaround result. That's not RS's fault.

Roberts knock-on was catastrophic too, and he does have those in those in his game. However, he isn't a winger and has played way more games than RS would ever have intended at this stage.

There were plenty of other errors but those two above for me started the rot. Generally speaking, the coach isn't responsible for players being offside / dropping the ball cold / missing individual tackles. It is worrying that the players he has signed are some of the main culprits though, and that's ultimately what might cost him the job.

Cas is a good fixture for us next. We are a better side than them, so it comes down to a bit of luck but mostly desire and attitude.

I think the team need to react like they did (funnily enough against Cas) after the two nillings. If they don't play with that intensity Id say he's lost the players, it's going to be very interesting in how they play on Saturday.

The players should not be let off Scott free either, there was some pathetic showing from some senior player in that second half against Saints, it's not all on Smith here.

You've put it perfectly there Jim, it is the cake along with other short cut plays that underpin his whole philosophy and when the team can't execute often enough they lose confidence amd revert to looking lost. look at the revolutionary approach of ben and Chris walker at the Jets, that'd didn't translate to first grade and neither of them were offered head coach position in the NRL. Smith forme is in that same mould, wants to reinvent the game but the basics done well will always win out.

You’re welcome…