It's also down to the clubs ability to coach and develop talent

Nail on head

How highly do you rate Mark Butterill Matt?
He seems to be a coach that consistently delivers the scholarship players to the older academy groups year on year, but he never gets a chance to coach the older groups or move up the coaching ladder.
IMO he should be the head of the academy structure at the club.

Rate him massively Biff, think he's an excellent coach

Dont know his personal circumstances so not sure if he would want it, but for me, the more time our young players are coached by him, the better off the club and the players would be.

Imo, far too often over the last several year, our Scholarship players look better drilled and more intelligent rugby players at 16, than they do in our Academy at 18, despite the scholarship spending a fraction of the time together

A very good assessment that Matt

Quote: ArthurClues "In amongst all the gloom it's great to see the reserves get a win at Saints.'" https://youtu.be/0h8JrqKftkQ?si=hs-xT_HD5pFaki_Y

Quote: ArthurClues "In amongst all the gloom it's great to see the reserves get a win at Saints.'" https://youtu.be/0h8JrqKftkQ?si=hs-xT_HD5pFaki_Y

I’m at the academy game today at a beautiful looking HQ in the sun. Really looking forward to seeing the lads play today, I’ll give you some thoughts after - couple of potential future first graders on show hopefully.

Poor result against a team made up of players left over after we've signed the ones we want

Again, young team,11 first years, but would expect better.

Fair play to the Cas coach, he's clearly doing a great job and getting the best out of his players

Accepting that Leeds looked too young and struggled with Cas’s physicality, I’m still not seeing much in this crop to get excited about to be honest.

Cassell will probably make first grade SL. McCormack has talent but needs size. Diskin impressed me; he’s much more physical than he was. Can put a shot on like his Dad too. Not sure what his best position is..

Webster was alright again but I’m not sure if he’s going to stand out. Qareqare needs to get his head in better places in D and might be too small. Stead went well. Oladipupo is a big unit for his age. Nobody else did much for me today unfortunately.

Matts is it the age group under this one you’re more keen on?

No Jim, its this age group, but they're all in the first year at Academy level, 11 played today, which is a lot this early into their Academy careers. The second years are a poor group, so not much support other than McCormack and Corbett

The first years are the best players in the country in that age group, or they were when signed to Scholarship, and still were throughout scholarship until joining the Academy, lets see how they develop now they're in the Academy!!

I trust John Bastion when he says we they are an outstanding group, i dont trust our Academy to develop them

But as i said in an earlier post, next season, when this group are all second years, will be a true indicator, if they arnt a dominant side then, somthings gone seriously wrong.

The year below are not as deeply talented across the group, but they have 2 or 3 brilliant prospects

Thanks Matt.

Nicely, I hope you’re wrong about the coaching but I didn’t see much cohesion or shape again today. Skill level wasn’t great although you can see Cassell has good hands.

If Oladipupo is a first year he’s a bit of a beast.

Yeah Oladipupo is a first year Jim

I hope im wrong aswel, if there is even a wrong or right, its just my opinion really, but its a long standing opinion based on progression of players that far too often get overtook and left behind by their peers once they reach Academy level.

It’s hard to look at sides like Cas outperforming us at this level when we pretty much have pick of the crop regionally and have dedicated coaches and S&C for the juniors with all our facilities.

Then again one year development at 16-18 makes a huge difference. We struggled physically against Cas, who had a couple of lads close to open age size.

First time I’ve seen a few of those boys live. Considering most aren’t going to be near first team for another 2-3 years there is some potential there. Liked Cassell - he does have a bit of everything doesn’t he? Also he has a bit of aggression which all the top forwards have.

Whats the answer then matt? i see it like you i try and go watch the scholarship and academy as much as possible,night and day when it comes to how both sides play and how players develop, saw ur earlier post about wanting butteril to coach the academy and im of that ilk too ,it's no fluke that the bloke gets the best out the kids in the scholarship and he was chevs assistant when they won the academy grand final a few years back,do we know if he wants to do it? im guessing not as its as clear as to everyone who watches the games within our lower levels that he's the bloke to lead this talented group moving forward unless he doesnt want to do it? players and parents speak highly of him on the hill at stanningley so somethings going on? its baffled me for years this subject and we have talked about it for years now.the lad cannot want it simple as that.

How much of this is coaching, and how much of losing games like these is down to them picking a young side so that they’re challenged more?