True I suppose on Williams, if he did that for England and got tackled there on the last play he'd get slaughtered but I suppose that's the responsibility/risk that comes with playing in the halves.

I think those last couple of kicks of ours did come after Lilley went off so we were missing 1 HB so that didn't help but still should've avoided those situations. The Segeyaro one coming after Burrow going on a run on the 4th tackle, he almost gets down the wing and he does grab us valuable metres but as the only HB left on the field he's got to make sure he's not the one playing the ball on the last tackle....something he's been guilty of a few times in the past when playing hooker and resulting in either one of the halves or a forward having to go into dummy half on the 5th.

Again we looked unorganised for the Hall one and whilst it shouldn't happen again, fair play to Hall for turning a sloppy situation into something good, not just a decent kick but enthustic chase after it.

One more one, our last tackle of the match, passing it out wide and Watkins tries batting one of those no catch passes over to Briscoe and it goes into touch, totally unnecessary. I'm sure if it worked off and Briscoe got in people would say it was great but so much less control over those types of 'passes' and what if it looped up into a Wigan players hands and he got away downfield.

Not very often we've held 14 point leads this year. Saints came back at us before we won at Headingley, we managed to stroll away from Wakefield and let slip our lead vs Widnes a few weeks back. So whilst we held on this week we look like a team who is still re-learning how to win games again. At least we've gone from losing close games earlier in the year to winning them.....next step is that when have those sort of 2/3 score leads to not let them slip and let the opposition back in it.

So whilst we won and did play well, still plenty of room for improvement and stuff to work on.

Perhaps a bit harsh to link Hardaker's departure with upturn in mood/performance when several other factors in play. Back in the training ground will have lifted spirits, injured regulars returning will have done likewise. If Lowes is back and working with the defence and they can see the results then another factor and bringing in a top quality NRL hooker in a position that has been so problematic for us over the years will have no doubt lifted the spirits of the players.

Surprised Sutcliffe is getting a free pass on those poor last tackle plays.

With Lilley off the field, what was stopping him from stepping up and demanding the ball so he could take the responsibility for the kicks?

Sorry but i just dont see it with Lilley at all but i thought he was much improved last night and had a decent game overall without being much of a running threat. His defence seems to be improving, some of kicks into touch were sensible when the forwards needed a break. His lack of pace will always be there but i dont neccessarily think everybody has to have blistering pace, Sinny never had any. If a half lacks pace they must have creativity tho and i hope im wrong but ive seen little of it from Lilley and ive been to every game this season.

Young Jack Walker in 19s scored another 2 tries at Hull today through some great support play. Hes a stepper and a real running threat. Only 17 so not ready yet but to me hes more potential than Lilley if he can keep improving at the rate he is. All opinions tho.

Running halves always adapt better to full time playing at an early age, because people see a highlight real of a few tries and ignore the fact that he totally relies on another half to run the game they are allowed to make a few mistakes
Organising halves however get put under a lot more pressure at a young age because they are still learning a few things about the game

A big reason that the Aussies produce so much better halves than us is that they recognise this and give organising and kicking halves, for example Adam Reynolds, util they are 23/4 to truly see how good they are

No need to rush with Lilly

INOUT

All of the above is true fella but the ability has to be there in 1st place and in Lilley i havent seen the ability personally.

Yeah hes very young and has time to develop and improve. Hope the kid becomes a Leeds legend but i havent seen it yet. Only my opinion tho against plenty of people who seem to think hes the future.

Lilley needs a quality half back to play alongside or as understudy to to help him develop. I cant see McGuire lasting into next season as a real force given his age and injuries. I wouldnt be surprised if he called it a day at the end of the year

I cant see Danny retiring.

Well just like the likes of Hall and Ablett have returned from injury into a balanced squad with a quality 9 and found form alongside the likes of Watkins then hopefully McGuire does the same when he returns. In his post match interview, Lilley sounded like he expects McGuire to be back next week vs HKR.

In my view it is no coincidence that team spirit has improved since he departed. With more than half the triple winners missing because of injury or retirement it was incumbent on the senior players who did take the field to step up to the mark and show leadership, take responsibility and set a good example to the reserves and juniors who were thrown into a difficult situation. The likes of Burrow and JJB did do that but sadly the much overrated Hardaker was unable or unwilling to show the same character and was found badly wanting.

We may never know what off field stuff was going on but it is my guess that ZH's influence was not a positive one. I really hope his performances improve so that he remains down under.

I saw Maggsy after game on Fri and he looked to be walking fine so hopefully back next week.

Meh, we beat and nilled Salford whilst he was still here and he played vs Wakey at wing, centre and FB during the game when won comfortably so a bit harsh to put it on him.

He has the ability. Look at the wigan game, he took control a number of times - doing great kicks into touch at the right times. He really has a feel for the pace of the game. Other times he'd jump in at dummy half and get things moving at the right time. Some of it was really sinfield esk. He's 19, he only made his first appearence towards the end of last season so we can't expect him to be gliding round the pitch controlling every blade of grass like stacey jones or something. But I'm sure if we stick with him until 23/24 he'll become a good dictator halfback. Put someone with pace in alongside him at that time and we'll have a great pairing.

Exactly. He's played 20 games this year including a WCC, invaluable experience and probably 3 times as many games as he would've expected to play this year. And let's not forget most of those were without a quality number 9 which can only help your halves....last two weeks you could see him going on autopilot jumping into dummy half when Segeyaro was there to do the job and he hasn't had to be involved in the 'hiding 3 HB's in defence' issue.

Tricky to learn whilst the season is in progress at that age. A full preseason behind him to look back, review and work on his performances this season and will be very interesting to see how he's developed for 2017.

I'm optimistic for the lads future if we stick with him.

Not putting it all on him at all but he has been one of our worst players this year. Not sure of your point here? Do you want me to list all the games he played in this year that we lost?