You're implying that people making backwards, hypocritical arguments, ignoring facts, dismissing expert opinion, dismissing reasoned arguments out of hand and generally spewing a whole heap of anti-intellectual, ill-informed bull are not deserving of scorn?

This isn't all the Leave voters BTW, just most of them.

Two really key positive arguments, set aside from the clear economics, and also set aside from the 'fear' and the 'speculation' from overwhelming numbers of 'experts' that seems to not make a blind bit of difference to some, in fact is, in a through the looking glass world, cited as further evidence to vote leave. Anyway:

-40 years of membership of the single market has led to a more outward-looking, more prosperous British nation. There is *nothing* to suggest this will not continue.

-The European Union's founding purpose was to ensure the absence of war. Throughout its existence, member states of the EU have never taken up arms against each other - a remarkable achievement of unity given European history. I'm from the first generation of my family that hasn't fought in a major European war, and I don't want to be from the last.

Keep going. You're doing great.

I knew there were some smart guys on here (more so than me) ....but my perceptions have been surpassed. A far better intelligent knowledgeable informed interesting and worthwhile arguments (on both sides) than anything I have heard or seen elsewhere in any of the media. Makes me feel proud to be a Southstander ...

Will leaving the EU limit the supply of midgets? Or cake?

Oh sod off

No, but the glass coffee tables will be deported back.

The result of this referendum will make no difference whatsoever.

Whatever the result, we can all look forward to more neoliberalism, more austerity, more privatisation of profit, more socialisation of debt and risk, more inequality, more zombie economy debt, more global corporate influence, less democracy, more tax-dodging, less investment in public services, more scapegoating, more toxicity, more racism, more wars for profit and further transference of wealth from the poor to the rich. Gordon Gekko's and Patrick Bateman's by plenty.

If ever a referendum provided an illusion of choice, this is it.

Unable to produce any economic positives for staying in the EU the Remain campaign set about to try and scare the public by producing a number of economic reports and a fake fear budget which take the very worst possible senario and promote it as fact. To back this up a motley crew of celebs, Unions and loyal acronyms have been wheeled out under the broad heading of expert opinion.

Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. Because you are an expert in a particular field like science or an inventor does not therefore give you expert status to be able to advise the public on economic matters, or immigration or sovereignty. Neither does being an ex Secretary General of the UN. Unions like power and influence and are not known to favour too much democracy so no surprise they like the power central undemocratic EU.

The various acronyms that do specialise in economics, but not immigration or democracy, should be worth a listen. But as they too cannot produce facts and only predictions you have to study their various records in predicting events. None of those named predicted the economic crisis and all said the UK would go into serious decline if we didn't join the Euros single currency. One of them, the IMF, had to make a grovelling apology to the British government for predicting a slow down in the UK economy with many bad things to come - the opposite was ghe case. So these so called economic experts are really not too good at economic predictions in reality.

The truth is there are no facts for either side because there is no precedent for a country to leave the EU. In fact the only similar event was when Greenland voted in a referendum to leave the EEC and they have done very well outside.

Therefore I think it is misleading of the Remainers to claim so called experts say we would be better to stay in the EU and there are great risks to leaving. To scare pensioners, the low paid and young families with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest
to remain as they are doing all right thank you.

Quote: Juan Cornetto "Unable to produce any economic positives for staying in the EU the Remain campaign set about to try and scare the public by producing a number of economic reports and a fake fear budget which take the very worst possible senario and promote it as fact. To back this up a motley crew of celebs, Unions and loyal acronyms have been wheeled out under the broad heading of expert opinion. Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. Because you are an expert in a particular field like science or an inventor does not therefore give you expert status to be able to advise the public on economic matters, or immigration or sovereignty. Neither does being an ex Secretary General of the UN. Unions like power and influence and are not known to favour too much democracy so no surprise they like the power central undemocratic EU. The various acronyms that do specialise in economics, but not immigration or democracy, should be worth a listen. But as they too cannot produce facts and only predictions you have to study their various records in predicting events. None of those named predicted the economic crisis and all said the UK would go into serious decline if we didn't join the Euros single currency. One of them, the IMF, had to make a grovelling apology to the British government for predicting a slow down in the UK economy with many bad things to come - the opposite was ghe case. So these so called economic experts are really not too good at economic predictions in reality. The truth is there are no facts for either side because there is no precedent for a country to leave the EU. In fact the only similar event was when Greenland voted in a referendum to leave the EEC and they have done very well outside. Therefore I think it is misleading of the Remainers to claim so called experts say we would be better to stay in the EU and there are great risks to leaving. To scare pensioners, the low paid and young families with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'" Lol, you couldn't make it up. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... e-experts/

Quote: Juan Cornetto "Unable to produce any economic positives for staying in the EU the Remain campaign set about to try and scare the public by producing a number of economic reports and a fake fear budget which take the very worst possible senario and promote it as fact. To back this up a motley crew of celebs, Unions and loyal acronyms have been wheeled out under the broad heading of expert opinion. Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. Because you are an expert in a particular field like science or an inventor does not therefore give you expert status to be able to advise the public on economic matters, or immigration or sovereignty. Neither does being an ex Secretary General of the UN. Unions like power and influence and are not known to favour too much democracy so no surprise they like the power central undemocratic EU. The various acronyms that do specialise in economics, but not immigration or democracy, should be worth a listen. But as they too cannot produce facts and only predictions you have to study their various records in predicting events. None of those named predicted the economic crisis and all said the UK would go into serious decline if we didn't join the Euros single currency. One of them, the IMF, had to make a grovelling apology to the British government for predicting a slow down in the UK economy with many bad things to come - the opposite was ghe case. So these so called economic experts are really not too good at economic predictions in reality. The truth is there are no facts for either side because there is no precedent for a country to leave the EU. In fact the only similar event was when Greenland voted in a referendum to leave the EEC and they have done very well outside. Therefore I think it is misleading of the Remainers to claim so called experts say we would be better to stay in the EU and there are great risks to leaving. To scare pensioners, the low paid and young families with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'" Lol, you couldn't make it up. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... e-experts/

Quote: Juan Cornetto " To scare pensioners,.... with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'" www.express.co.uk/news Staying in the EU will be CATASTROPHIC for state and private pensions, expert warns. You are too myopic to be serious.

Quote: Juan Cornetto " To scare pensioners,.... with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'" www.express.co.uk/news Staying in the EU will be CATASTROPHIC for state and private pensions, expert warns. You are too myopic to be serious.

I'm sorry, which side is using fear as a propaganda tool?

Not Project Fear as much as Project Hate.

Meanwhile I think the chlorine has gone to Juan's head with his 'so called experts' rant.

So, to be clear....should I vote in or out?