Sorry but anyone who makes claims like "Hardaker is the 8th best fullback in SL" really can't be taken seriously when discussing him.

Did you ever list those 7 players? Is Bowen one now he's finally had a half decent game, 18 months into his contract?

I'll tell you what Matt Bowen was missing Saturday and he's missed it for a long time.......

His neck!! What happened to it? Where is it?

If you're going to attempt to tell me you believe Stevo gets his Sky man of the match awards bob on every weekend G1, I'm going to assume you've got the giant wooden spoon out of the cupboard again for stirring purposes.

The game at Hull in question, he scored the last two tries at a time when Leeds were absolutely dominant in the game. The game was turned around by two key contributions each from Singleton (the run for McGuire's try, then the try of his own) and Watkins (similar) earlier in the half. Added to that was a tremendous defensive effort to keep it to 12-0 at half time despite a heavy weight of possession and field position in the home side's favour, in which I'm pretty sure Burrow didn't play any part from memory.

You'd have to be off in cloud cuckoo land (or Stevo) to regard Burrow as the outstanding performance of the 34 on the field that night. As we all know though, Stevo has his favourites when it comes to nominating man of the match, and it's usually whoever the dominant dummy half was in the last ten minutes of the game that sticks in his memory.

Can you show me where I claimed "Hardaker is the 8th best fullback in SL"? Should anyone who quotes so inaccurately be taken seriously?

Just to remind you I praised him for his defense but pointed out his shortcomings in attack and backed it up to show those fullbacks with better attacking stats. He has since continued to die with the ball rather than pass to others in space. He has also had a mixed season so far with regard to his defense.

Quote: Juan Cornetto "Can you show me where I claimed "Hardaker is the 8th best fullback in SL"? Should anyone who quotes so inaccurately be taken seriously?'" Quote: Juan Cornetto "so which 3 or 4 players did you agree were at least as good or better than Hardaker? or just dodge the question again i guess '" Quote: Juan Cornetto "Difficult to pick just 3 or 4 out of the list of 7 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=576847&start=120

Quote: Juan Cornetto "Can you show me where I claimed "Hardaker is the 8th best fullback in SL"? Should anyone who quotes so inaccurately be taken seriously?'" Quote: Juan Cornetto "so which 3 or 4 players did you agree were at least as good or better than Hardaker? or just dodge the question again i guess '" Quote: Juan Cornetto "Difficult to pick just 3 or 4 out of the list of 7 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=576847&start=120

I'm sure he'll be back tomorrow with a load of "yeah buts" and "that's not what I meant" type malarky.

So is Burrow going to Cas then or not... I'm confused!!!

You really do watch games through tinted glasses. Hardaker was MOM and Leeds lost because Sinfield wasn't allowed to control the Leeds play - you often post good stuff but both of those points are very wide of the mark. He slipped because Burgess wrong footed him even if he hadn't he would not have got near him and he was out of position for the Williams try. Not sure how that contributes to a MOM performance.

Zac is an excellent player but he has still someway to go before he is the finished article especially if we compare him to his counterparts in the NRL

For a start Sal, I have not in any single post either stated, or alluded to the fact that we lost because Sinfield wasn't allowed to control the Leeds play. So when talking about tinted glasses, that needs to be addressed by you.

On Hardaker, he did not slip because Burgess wrong footed him, Burgess changed the direction of his run after Hardaker slipped, a slip that most players had done all weekend, and the slip was at least 20 yards ahead of Burgess. He was not our of position for the Williams try, it was nearly a miraculous save, that no other fullback in our comp would have made. Well it actually was a save, if not for incorrect officiating.

However, even presuming you were correct on those two points, which you are not, how does that make it right to ignore all the other brilliant things he did in the match?

For a start people say Bowen had a great game. Well if you look at stats, Bowen made 2 more metres than Hardaker throughout the match. That was despite playing 10 minutes more and part of a team that were continually going forward, unlike ours, and where the kicks were continually raining down his throat. Its also worth noting that Hardaker was one of only three players in the Leeds team to achieve over 100 metres in the game, he got 209, and just to back up the point of go forward, there were seven Wigan player who achieved this. Of the other two Leeds players to get this, six of the Wigan players made less carries than them.

On Tackle busts, Hardaker made more than double anyone else on the pitch, 8 more than Bowen. He made more clean breaks than anybody on the pitch. He made more offloads than Bowen.

Had there been a yawning gap in the Wigan defence and he had a winger racing up to it, I am 100% sure he too would have put the winger away for a try.

Did you not see the clearing from our in goal area on numerous occasions despite the chasing defence?

There is nothing biased about it at all. The sky commentary team were repeating the very same things. Had Leeds won that game, Hardaker would have easily been nominated MOM.

Sinfield could have controlled the game. Time and again he abdicated responsibility and passed on the last tackle rather than kick

Considering how many years he has done that for, you don't think the sudden change is an instruction rather than a choice?

loiner81 cannot substantiate his false claim because I never said it.

The original thread last year was about skill and it had been suggested he was the best FB in SL and would make a standoff. I praised ZH for his defensive abilities and first half of the season (last) performances but pointed out his attacking deficiencies with stats to suggest many other FBs had more effective attacking skills.

But he has not backed up his statement with evidence.

He has taken a couple of quotes out of context. The discussion back then was about Hardaker behind other FBs with regard to attacking skills and not that there were 8 better all round FBs in SL

I do hope you are not called for jury service.

Your just doing an embarrassing back peddle as usual. Loiner81 is correct. You even shed tears when we released BJB because you felt he was a better fullback than Hardaker. Yet you are the one posting about credibility.