The question on the coach is not about his ability it is about is he the best man for the job? Would Leeds have won everything in 2011 and 2012 if say Trent Robinson had been the coach?

You have forgotten Ryan Bailey from that list. In fact, he should have been mentioned before McGuire, who has played in 3 (2005, 2010, 2011).

Bailey has played in 5 of the 6 CC Final losses since '99, every one since 2003. As have Sinfield and Burrow. JJB has played in 4 (missed 2003).

Players with 3 losses: Ablett, Delaney, Hall, Kirke, Leuluai, McGuire.

So with ten players having suffered three or more final defeats, I would say the word 'group' is massively accurate myself.

Players with 2 losses: JP (with Leeds), Briscoe (Hull), BJB, Watkins, Clarkson.

1: Hardaker, Stevie Ward

Well I beg to differ. It is the coaches ability that has been questioned from the start. Brian McDermott has not just proven his ability in winning Championships but also in bringing on young players and overcoming injuries and poor form. He has won the respect of the dressing room and he also comes over clearly as an honest man who says what he thinks.

No one can answer your Trent Robinson question and so it is irrelevant other than to say TR could not have won much more than BM in 2011 and 2012. Also Mac is 3-2 up in matches against Catalan when they were opposition coaches.

Robbie Ward and Jordan Lilley in today's academy squad.

Id guess:

Golding
Briscoe Watkins Handley Hall
Hardaker Sutcliffe
Bailey Aiton Singleton
Walters Achurch
Ward

White Clarkson Kirke Minchella

has he won the respect of the dressing room or do 'friends' from his assistant days use or tolerate him

its ok quoting people changing their minds but to defend him to the hilt is very rose tinted specs

says what he thinks ? Stood impassionately lemon like during Bradford game which after semi final we are told they were practising his game plan. Must have been complicated to master with all the errors.

He can do the double then join his evil henchman at Bradford for me.

Mainly because think will need some one new to work with next generation.

Quote: Juan Cornetto "We all get it wrong from time to time as The Bloodbath knows I have a Cross to bear'" No need to go back further than yesterday for proof of that - unless getting beat by a comfortable margin is evidence of 'a tricky one.' viewtopic.php?f=17&t=573053&tsmp=1408196414&start=15

Quote: Juan Cornetto "We all get it wrong from time to time as The Bloodbath knows I have a Cross to bear'" No need to go back further than yesterday for proof of that - unless getting beat by a comfortable margin is evidence of 'a tricky one.' viewtopic.php?f=17&t=573053&tsmp=1408196414&start=15

Leeds fans slagging McDermott and Lowes?

I'm surprised anyone wants to come play for the club with fans like that.

I only defend him against negative nonsense - an example of which you have kindly just provided

I predicted a St Helens win last night.

_____

Do you not think Maguire was the catalyst in the change of fortunes at Wigan?

I perhaps was guilty at the time of underestimating an outstanding core group of players and their ability to rise above the mediocrity that passes for the regular rounds under the flawed (and soon to be dumped) format.

The throughput of outstanding juniors at Wigan since Maguire's comparitively brief spell there is, I think, highly impressive with the move up apparently seamless - the throughput at Headingley under the McDermott's is much less so and the transition appears difficult as the 1st grade relies heavily on individual plays. When a vacancy was created recently in the Bradford game McDermott filled it with second rowers while Ash Handley (Ryan Hall Mk II) dominated the Academy game.

This core group won't always be here and the McDermott legacy is still to come.

This thread

Keep predicting Leeds downfall folks, you'll get it right one year and then you can all say you told us so

Yeah me and Juan on the same wavelength is like The Hell's Angels it's that much "a gang" haha.

That coming from the king of chipping into a argument started by Gotcha or Tvoc like the little lackey you continuously end up looking like is truely the most pitiful thing here. It's about time you recognised this.

When i look as stupid as you i will begin to worry - you jump on any bandwagon you can when it comes to certain posters on here!!This thread is a perfect example of this, you need somebody else to stand behind because in reality you are just a scared little boy. Now run along and come back when you have grown up a little.

I agree that Maguire's reign seems to have been as you say, most especially on the matter of fitness/conditioning & on their tackle tecnique that rely heavily on the Craig Bellamy style of wrestling the ball carrier, holding him up then a third or fourth defender coming in & hitting the tackler below the knee.
A tactic I abhor & which has been recognised as dangerous, in the NRL at least by outlawing it.
Wigan still do this from time to time - it lead I believe to Salter's injury on Thursday for instance.
I do not agree that Maguire was responsible (as you imply) for the junior development, that I think was due for more to the influence of Dean Bell (as it was here at Leeds) & those academy staff who have followed him.