Has someone else has said if an ex prop and an ex hooker can't work out what to do we're doomed I tell thee. I long for the days when Graham Murray could turn Andy Hay into a world beater! Imagine Kirke under Murrays guidance....

Andy Hay was never anything approaching a world beater. He was just lucky enough to be in a side that covered his deficiencies. Once he stepped up a level they were pretty brutally exposed.

Remind me again what Murray achieved in terms of trophies with an expensively assembled squad?

Murray took us from 'also rans' in every department, to winning the Challenge Cup and to the inaugural Grand Final; a fair achievement in my eyes.

And more importantly for me, we played some excellent rugby during his tenure - our defence back then was as brutal as I've ever seen a team. Look at the number of relatively unknown or mediocre players that he had punching above their weight. He knew where the individual brilliance was within the team, and he knew what gameplan to use to maximise those attributes - something sadly lacking at the moment. The under/Mis-use of Kallum Watkins being the perfect example.

Got to say i agree with superted AG he improved a lot of ordinary players and squeezed some real quality out of older players ala Glanville and Powell.

The Murray team was filled with brawn. That we hadn't seen in a Leeds team in years.

Relly? Aside from Harris who? It was always a transitional squad with a short shelf life.

I used to think gilders posts were good til that nonsensical rubbish.

IIRC Leeds paid transfer fees for Sheridan, Hay and Farrell from Sheffield didn't they? Richie Blackmore from Cas? Barrie McDermott from Wigan?

Of the 17 that played in the 1999 Final only Rivett, Cummins, Newton and Morley came through the club's academy system?

Bless, I'm hurt. No really, I am.

the 94-95 side bar such as mick worrall were prob more expensive in wages if not transfers than the 98-99 team

sheridan , hay ,farrell were part of hetherington's south yorks old boys
godden, massella & glanville were relatively unknown , mathiou can stay unknown , powell and fleary were part of the keighley rescue deal

the teamwork of the defence especially farrell & fleary was better than I can remember before /after.

Everyone knew the harris plan but we had some entertaining 2nd halves from it.

Hay looked good as a sub under Murray but not as a later starting player.

A win at Wembley?

more importantly he turned around the whole ethos and attitude of the club

I'd have put more of that down to Dean Bell.

possibly but GM also had a massive influence

Indeed ... After a couple of months at the club (not long after the departure of a certain G Holdroyd aka 'the next Garry Schofield) from the club, Murray was quoted in the press words to the effect of 'we have no more poor trainers at this club'

Given that there is a suggestion that Murray might be lucky or be-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time type fella, just look at his record :

- He took a nothing club (Hunter Mariners) to a final during their short life in the ASL

- He took Leeds to a Challenge Cup Final victory (and beat the three hardest other teams around at the time on the way) .... Something not achieved by ANY coach since

- Took a deadbeat Easts side to an NRL Grand Final ...

Let's not forget when Murray was around, our pack were a set of nasty b*stards .... Invariably, we'd be a team this week and they'd lose the following week too as a result of what we'd taken out of them. Anyone remember the letter from the league asking us to 'tone down' the big hits ?

I'd have him back tomorrow