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Quote: Kosh "Having watched the game back a few times I'd hesitate to call it 'critical' regardless of whether it was forward or not. At least two Hull players were in position to tackle the ball carrier and there was no support in sight. I'd put the chances of a try being scored at around 50% at best.'"


Are you fooking blind? Incredibly biased? Or just clueless?

It was a clear try and he could have walked on his hands to the line without been touched by an Hull player.

Dear god.

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Quote: Wellsy13 "I am familiar with the video, thanks.'"


And yet it was you who wished to use pitch markings as evidence of a forward pass when we both know they are almost always irrelevant as players tend to be moving rather than stood still when delivering the ball.

Quote: Wellsy13 "Let me repeat, the speed at which Webb is travelling AFTER the ball is passed is irrelevant. It's the speed he's travelling AS HE PASSES that matters. He cannot add velocity to the ball after he's passed it. He's running virtually sideways as he passes, so his forward velocity will have hardly affected the past. He straightens up after the pass. It was definitely forward.'"


Are you suggesting Webb speeded up after releasing the pass?

Webb was travelling both laterally and towards the Hull line when he passed the ball. Webb doesn't appear to accelerate after passing the ball, indeed his progress forward if anything is impeded by the challenge of Crooks and yet he stays in line as Jones-Bishop receives the pass.

Probably best also not to lose sight of the fact we are debating a subjective matter and refrain from ending messages with definitive statements.

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Quote: Gotcha "Are you fooking blind? Incredibly biased? Or just clueless?

It was a clear try and he could have walked on his hands to the line without been touched by an Hull player.

Dear god.'"

Apparently you're the only one that's blind, as Tom Briscoe clearly had him covered. They may have scored off the subsequent tackle, but there was no disallowed "try" as there wasn't one scored.

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Quote: tvoc "And yet it was you who wished to use pitch markings as evidence of a forward pass when we both know they are almost always irrelevant as players tend to be moving rather than stood still when delivering the ball.'"

The fact that you have said "almost" always means that they aren't irrelevant to you.
The pitch markings cannot be used to determine a forward pass alone due to the "momentum" rule (that technically isn't anything to do with momentum, it's constant velocity). However, they can be used to estimate the velocity of the player and the ball and make a comparison.

To me, the main point is that the ball is ALWAYS in front of Webb. Had it been passed backwards, it would have been behind him at some point.

Quote: tvoc "Are you suggesting Webb speeded up after releasing the pass? '"


Webb was travelling both laterally and towards the Hull line when he passed the ball. Webb doesn't appear to accelerate after passing the ball, indeed his progress forward if anything is impeded by the challenge of Crooks and yet he stays in line as Jones-Bishop receives the pass.'"
]

Yes. He steps as he passes (as many players do to add momentum to the pass from a planted base). He accelerates forward after this. He was running sideways until that point. His forward motion may have been impeded by Crooks, but again that was AFTER the pass. The ball was never behind him, and if it had been passed backwards but moved forwards due to his constant velocity, the ball would have been behind him at some point between him passing it and him being stopped by Crooks.

Quote: tvoc "Probably best also not to lose sight of the fact we are debating a subjective matter and refrain from ending messages with definitive statements.'"

It was definitely forward icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Wellsy13 "The fact that you have said "almost" always means that they aren't irrelevant to you.'"


The remainder of the 'almost' sentence I used to indicate an example of when the pitch markings could be relevant but clearly that situation didn't apply to Webb on Saturday.

Quote: Wellsy13 "The pitch markings cannot be used to determine a forward pass alone due to the "momentum" rule (that technically isn't anything to do with momentum, it's constant velocity). However, they can be used to estimate the velocity of the player and the ball and make a comparison.'"


Webb's pass was a face ball to the winger cutting the centre out, the longer the pass the less reliable an indicator pitch markings become.

Quote: Wellsy13 "To me, the main point is that the ball is ALWAYS in front of Webb. Had it been passed backwards, it would have been behind him at some point.'"


And to me the main point is the ball is never in front of Webb until after he is checked by Crooks' challenge. There are three possible directions for a pass to travelhim at some point between him passing it and him being stopped by Crooks.'"


Why are you focussing solely on a pass needing to be 'behind' ? As explained above a ball can also be flat ie in-line for it still to be deemed legal.

I agree Webb plants his left foot to steady his delivery at the point of release where I disagree is that there was any element of acceleration in Webb's run after that point, if anything I'd say the opposite was true as he prepares for contact. Despite this slowing Webb remains in line with the ball before Crooks' intervention.

Quote: Wellsy13 "It was definitely forward
It's interesting that when applying the pitch-marking theory in isolation Crooks' pass to Briscoe for his first should have been disallowed.

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