McDermott is actually just living off the good work that Bluey did in teaching the team to raise and perform for the big games, however bluey was just living off the good work that Smith did in nurturing young players to become top quality players, however smith was just living off the good work that powell did in putting the young spine together and ridding the dead weight, however powell was just living off the good work that dean lance did in exposing an ageing team that needs rebuilding, however lance was just living off the good work that Murray did .... you can trace McDermotts success back to the 60's.

On skills development - just look at the back line - has Hardaker's passing improved? has Watkins improved? Is Ryan Hall or Briscoe any better under the high ball?

Have we improved at converting pressure in the opponents 20 into points?

The warrior attitude is too Wane like for me and it clouds his judgement at times - players are over-played and the warrior is used to justify his stubborness.

It seems to me Gotcha has a point it is the players not the coach that has contributed most to the success - fortunately the limitations of the players has been sufficiently good enough to win all those trophies as very few of the senior players have actually improved/developed new skills under McDermott

Don't know whether to LOL or cringe at this thread.

I am happy with him.

Defensive skills? I have always been of the opinion that defence is largely a matter of attitude. Skill plays a part but you cannot convince me that players have not received basic training in tackling and defensive reading of the game.

Lack of individual player development? Fans are deluding themselves in thinking this is entirely the head coach's responsibility. It surely rests on the will and attitude of individuals to improve themselves. The example of Jamie Peacock speaks volumes. Was he made a good player because of the training he received under Brian Noble? Of course not. Sinfield likewise was not coached into becoming a good leader. One only has to look at the number of promising players signed by Warrington who have not really progressed under Tony Smith (supposedly a good technical coach) - Myler, Atkins, maybe Daryl Clark...

It's a matter of perspective. Hardaker has improved in all aspects of the game from the skinny kid that debuted on the wing. I'd argue the same with Watkins, to the point where sometimes you wish he'd back his pure athletic ability a bit more. Similarly who gets credit for Mcguires development, or Peacocks game having so much more to it in the last 3 years or so?

Hall is a worry at the minute, as is the inability to unlock a defence from close range. But we've been like that the last couple of years.

I think it's a disservice to compare Macs Warrior ways to that of Wane. Mac focus on hard work and pushing yourself, rather than Wanes aggression first, blood and thunder model.

If you want to say the players were the reason we won everything then I suppose I can see where your coming from, but plenty of good teams have been held back by a coach. You only have to look at our own team in the last year of Bluey. Imo he might have been a bit lucky, but he was also the right man at the right time.

I've always assumed the substitution policy contributes to the warrior mentality and the big game wins? Surprises me this is such a mystery to many.

Never met the guy, but I suspect he's a complex and sometimes difficult individual, but then the best leaders often are...

This.

Most folk (me included) were filthy with the bloke for our insipid start to that season. However, he managed to turn it around and despite a wall of opposition took out the SL trophy and proved a LOT of people wrong. (again, me included)

When we started struggling again the next season, folk still couldn't accept he'd proved them wrong the season before and came unstuck yet again when we rallied and took out the SL title.

Fact is LeedsDave has it nailed. The guy has consistently proved people wrong, which in turn has wound up some of our fan base into an apoplectic rage at points. Face it after been proved wrong, time after time people are now going out of their way to find any excuse to have a pop at the guy.

He's not a bombastic coach, he doesn't really brag, yes he has been guilty of whinging at times but ATEOTD he has consistently brought us success, the people who really matter (the playing staff) trust him to do the right things so why cant we?

I think the comparison with Wane is useful - when Wigan's blood and thunder doesn't work there's nothing left, well unless you include a Tony Clubb high ball... McD's teams have character and finesse when it counts.

It is a matter of perspective - Hardaker would have experienced natural improvement as he grew physically and gained experience same for Watkins but the glaring shortfalls in both of their games haven't been addressed. Mcdermott works with these players every day.

McGuire I would agree on Peacock I saw no differences in his game under McDermott the same for Sinfield and can you honestly Burrow has developed any new skills under McDermott?

The warrior thing is different from Wane but the concept is the same - it is about being physically dominant which is important in a setting a platform but if you don't have the skills to capitalise it is all wasted.

But Hardakers passing, positional sense etc have improved and it is not all down to getting older. Same with Watkins, hew has some lovely passes in his locker and his defence has improved tenfold. Some of that must be down to coaching?

Peacocks game changed immensely, from an out and out battering ram to someone capable of being a link man, granted not on the level of FGB or Cuthbo but still it was another facet to his game. I won't argue with you on Burrow, his passing from DH is a bit better, but that could be just down to being asked to do it more.

I actually think Macs mentality is as much about being mentally tougher than your opponent. This is something JP talks about all the time, rather than just knocking 10 bells out of people as is the Wane way.

So far it's served us well.

thought this was going to be about the free travel to cas

Super League is the appropriate level of employment for a RL coach of his standard.