Charlie you seem to be Sinfields biggest critic , i for one do not seem to think his form was poor before he was left out and results were a damn sight better then than now .

Far from it. I still feel he should be in the 17 and has a valuable contribution to make, I just don't think the team should revolve around him anymore.

I don't think Sinfield, before or now, was/is the reason for the times we played poorly. Last season, whilst he wasn't that good he wasn't as bad as some people make out at times. And this season, whilst a steadying Sinfield hand may have been useful yesterday and Sinfield may have got the drop goal v Hudds, he wouldn't have changed the 2 losses v Wire and could just as easily not even got the drop goal away vs Hudds.

I agree with Charlie Sheen that the main reasons for our not so good performances this year (aside from simply not playing well, which does happen) are having a relatively small squad that was hit with a few injuries in the forwards all at once so the likes of Peacock, Cuthbertson, Singleton, Ablett etc couldn't be rotated, and crucially the loss of Briscoe and Hall.

Briscoe and Hall take a lot of work off the forwards. Their kick returns, and the 2 or 3 ptb's after, mean our forwards don't have to get back and take a drive in immediately to try and get us away from our line. Early in the season it was rare to see Peacock or Cuthbertson back and taking the ball until at least play 4. Now they're having to get back and try and get us away from our line on plays 2 or 3. It doesn't sound a lot but it really tires props out doing that kind of work. Briscoe and Hall, supported by Hardaker & Watkins, would have often got us out of our own 20/30m area before the forwards had to step back in.

I also think Leuluai has been missed. He could've played a helpful supporting role for the props. He's obviously past his prime but his size and stability still help the team even if he can't do quite as long.

nate myles would be an awesome signing he has a great all round game,right age and experience would be a top marquee signing if it goes through

Yeah I think one or two may have forgotten about this and just how significant it is for us. All teams have their strengths and weaknesses. Arguably our biggest strength especially compared to the rest of the league is the work our starting back 3 give us in terms of making metres. No other team would be as affected by losing their two starting wingers as much as we are. It was pointed out when Hardaker has the possibility of the sack hanging over him how much that would harm our style of play because Golding wouldn't be able to match his metres from FB, so too lose not one but both wingers for a period was massive. Golding not being trusted with the wing spot then left us with a further problem with Watkins needing to shift there. Hall's return (hopefully this week) and Watkins moving back to centre will have a big upturn for us as we'll have 4 of the 5 pieces of our back line in place.

I don't doubt the metres Briscoe and Hall make at all, it is a fact, and one that makes us stronger going forward.

However, Leeds last three games of poor performances haven't been because Hall and Briscoe were not there to make metres. The problems, have been entirely defensively, and the way we have no composure when the going gets tough. They wouldn't have gone away with Briscoe and Hall. Our scoring for has not been bad in these recent games, it is the pish poor defensive efforts that have been.

Whether you want to face it or not, Sinfield clearly would have made a massive difference to the performances. As stated, not for making metres, but for ensuring the team are playing as one and with their heads screwed on. Because that sure is not happening at the moment, and Hall and Briscoe are not going to change that.

with sinfield in the side and captaining it Leeds hit top of the pile with 10 wins from 11.

since he announced his move to RU he was benched for his 500th game - we lost

dropped for Hudds and Widnes - 1 point from 4

not suggesting for one minute he is the player he was 5 years ago, but like most posters i think cold hard facts suggest his influence is being missed

He was missing for a few of those wins through injury and announced his departure during that time. He came back and started vs Wakey, Salford and on the bench for Saints.

I just wonder though how Sinfield's name missing on the teamsheet has shocked some of the team? It must have done surely. Before their was no shock for those few games or the periods he missed in 2014 and 2013 because everyone knew why he wasn't playing. Must be a bit of a strange atmosphere in dressing room and training pitch going on ATM.

Thing is, he started on the bench vs Saints and he played decent minutes and was the only sub to make a decent contribution. Next week he has to wait until after halftime to get on even though things were going wrong early doors and then not picked. Between the Saints and Wire games the draw for the CC game vs Hudds was made and he's been as good as sat down since, is he being saved for that?

Difficult for him to change the first loss at Warrington given he was the captain that day!! nice pass for Warrington's third try!!

It could be worse. He could have head butted a bloke...

I agree with this. I'd argue, as well, that since we know Hall and Briscoe are not on the pitch to make those metres, we should be rotating our forwards differently. We don't seem to be doing that.

But it has been our loss of control of the ruck in defence that has troubled me. We seem to end up with a man on the ground behind the ptb far too option and there are cheap, easy metres to be made. That creates chaos and penalties and/or line breaks are the inevitable consequence.

It's all fixable, and we weren't doing it earlier in the year, so I'm not panicking.

McGuire not fit to be captain for the incident late on is a kick bandwagon to jump on. On that incident McGuire got involved in handbags, but it was Watkins who left his post as well. but no Watkins dropped thread.