"Low tolerance" ?

It is indeed fabulous that Leeds are again at Wembley and indeed when it "matters" the team again has succeeded. However, for most of this season (and indeed las)t those performances have been rare in regular league games.....is this really what the paying spectators deserve ? Are you saying they should put up/shut up with that majority low intensity 'commitment' from the players and coaching staff, knowing that Leeds will 'turn it on' for the big ones ? I'll save my money thanks.

Firstly i never said it was all BM's fault but he had to shoulder some blame through selection ,lack of rotation and some more than questionable substitutions ALL of which were pointed out by many others.
As for low tollerance is it ok to get pasted more than once perform WAY BELOW their obvious talents and continue to make the SAME errors week after week?
Like i said each game was treated and commented on it's own individual merits not just by me either.
I'm also very aware of the Teams record since BM arrived but does that make some of the performances OK then?
You can sit there and "ASSUME" all you want EVEN the playing and coaching staff have 99% agreed with those of us about standards of performances at certain times and openly admitted their errors.
My opinion is no less rellevant than yours and whilst i continue to pay the money i do then i will continue to offer opinions on each individual performance whether you consider them "back seat driving" or not it doesn't make the 50-8 at home defeat any more acceptable at that time.
RL88 All fair points but even with a lower intensity surely with the calibre of the team we could/should be still competing in most games?

Is it just me or does anyone else think Nat is a d!ck ??

You know very well what I am saying. My comments have never objected to constructive criticism. What I argue against is the ill-judged conclusions.

Let me ask you a question. If you have to choose between regular exciting risk taking rugby that entertains but doesn't win any trophies or or regular Champions and big game winners but some poor stuff in between.....which would you choose?

Think you know the answer to that one

People have tried to make out that we were losing games this season because the team weren't trying because they knew it didn't matter.......no we lost games because we played poor and the oppostion usually played very good. I 'd love to make a sports team up out of some of the guys on here because they must perform at their very best every single week, makes you wonder why they aren't professional sportsmen themselves.

Leeds still made some mistakes yesterday and defence still has some issues on the fringes (that word now trademarked by Jonathan Davies), we let them come back at us twice in the first half alone, but the oppostion didn't execute as well as possible and made sloppy errors and Tomkins never really fully got his focus back from the missed catch 3 mins in and seemed rattled for the rest of the game even though he did manage to produce some good stuff later. JJB in particular didn't cover himself in glory yesterday at times.

However a big difference just like Hull last week we had subs coming on getting decent game time and allowed to make an impact instead of just covering for the starters whilst they have a breather (2-3 months ago Griffin & Kirke would of barely got 20 mins, Lunt none at all). A few months back McDermott's poor use of his bench against Saints at Headingley and subsequent defending of his actions (when you could tell he knew he'd dropped a clanger, but was too stubborn to admit it) pretty much set up the really poor run that followed as he chose to publicly question the players attitude instead, even leading to GH's threatened end of season axing for under-performers. Its taken a few weeks and a couple of wins against lower placed teams to build a bit of confidence but the team actually looks like its enjoying being out on a rugby pitch again.

Several weeks back i described McDermott's coaching being similar to Webb's playing, you get some good stuff but their is a lot of head stratching frustrating moments that go with it too. I still doubt whether or not he can produce a team that can be consistent enough to finish in the top 2 in the regular season (it will eventually matter because you won't win it from 4th/5th/6th everytime). As for the players, i've said i was pretty much happy with the squad we have, would of liked to of seen JUST 1 or 2 young players get a game recently against the lower teams for experience/resting overworked first teamers. McDermott deserves credit for putting Bailey at Loose, it's worked well when if you said at the beginning of the season he would play there most would of laughed/despaired at BMcD. I think he got a stroke of luck with Webb getting injured otherwise i think he would of persisted with Webb at 1 with Hardaker continuing to not being the right fit at centre. Not only do we escape Webb's brainfarts that usually cost a try or 2 but Ablett over at centre has seen us get arguably are most dangerous weapon in Hall more into games. I've thought the pieces of the puzzle were always there at the club already, it was/still is a question whether McDermott completes the jigsaw, he's getting closer.

.......

Webb would not have made those try saving tackles on Tomkins (twice) ....as well as others.

There's a lovely pattern emerging on this board over the course of the year.

Leeds play well, players get all the credit

Leeds play poorly, coach gets all the blame.

Everybody needs a scapegoat. It's the way of the world

Both last year and this year BM has been your main target in the blame game. But the need for blame is only in your opinion (and those "others"icon_wink.gif as your conclusion "ASSUMES" that selection, rotation and substitutions would have rectified the problems. Had your suggestions happened with still no improvement would you still blame BM?

Taking over an existing very successful side with many stars and internationals is no easy task for a coach. Add to the equation several stars who are beginning to fade and lack some of their former pace and stamina yet on their day can still be up there with the best poses really difficult management challenges. All in all I believe BMac has risen to these challenges and has managed to motivate these stars (who have been there and got many T-shirts) for the big games. This doesn't mean he has been perfect or not made errors but I believe he has earned some respect and time so please cut him some slack.



No it is not ok to get pasted. But would you never allow proven top players that chance to play themselves back into form? (including MOM Sinfield) Are you suggesting that 75% of the team should have been dropped into the academy side to regain form. Or are you saying the players are deliberately taking it easy?



So? This doesn't make your negative comments any easier on the ear.



The poor level of form for much of the season is not being contested or defended nor am I saying the performances of the coaches and players should not be examined. It is your continual apportioning of blame and your simplistic solutions that I disagree with.

Your solution to all the problems is to drop out of form players (75% of the team) rotate the squad and make different substitutions. The fellow member of your mutual back slapping club from nantwich would play the under 12's and if that failed play every one in a new position.



Here you go again rhinoms (cue the violins) When have I said your opinion is less rellevant than mine? (or anyone else) When have I said you should not make all those critical postings?. What seems to upset you is that I do not agree with your problem solving conclusions and your lack of patience with proven players (and coaches)

Question for you rhinoms: Would you sooner have regular entertaining rugby played with flare and risk which perhaps often meant losing and rarely winning silverware or would you accept some dross during the season in exchange for winning some trophies?

For me it's quite simply player motivation. It's got to be hard for such a successful set of players to motivate themselves for the bread and butter of another 27 regular season games, knowing the highs they have at the END of so many seasons.

We were excellent at the back end of last season, including the CC final, and we're showing signs that we may do a similar thing this season, now that the big games are coming thick and fast. We've already won the WCC this season. This for me is where McDermott deserves credit. However good this set of players is and however much they've won, they simply can't go into a big game poorly coached and with a poor game plan and still win. So when the players are up for it, the coaching team, for me, certainly has the ability.

Incorrect. A combination of the two would be more accurate I think

McDermott is in charge of subsitutions, so that's credit there.






Ok didn't use the words 'The coach deserves credit' because i'd use that line for the Bailey point early so didn't want repetition, but he put Hardaker there, he could've of gone for Smith or BJB instead, so again credit.

''he's getting closer'', credit again that's he's moving in the right direction.

JC -All i 'd like to have seen is out of the the dour performances is us been competitive getting beat is never a problem for me and never will be.
As for selections there has to be a line where players don't become "undroppable" it worked fine under TS and also in terms of rotation Bluey was happy to give the younger lads gametime some of which that aren't anywhere near as good Singleton ,D.Smith etc etc.
You yourself point out how our greats aren't getting any younger which imo when we have situations like the Exiles ,Easter the Wakey game etc is the perfect time to rotate and rest 1or 2.
I'l also say when we have such a fantastic player like Sinny geting mullered defensively for weeks on end not just once or twice then surely there's a valid point in there for structural changes no??
We will disagree on many things i've no problem with it at all but just saying we are scapegoating ,knee-jerking ,disloyal showing low tollerence or should just accept p!sh poor efforts because some of us aren't SL coaches isn't the answer either.
I know how GOOD these lads have been and can be but i still think it's reasonable to expect us to be competitive in most games.
After a WCC or a big CC game again it's obvious there'll be a downturn in terms of intensity and we won't always be as sharp again that's a chance to freshen things up rest 1 or 2 utilise your full squad and bench and still compete isn't a massive ask.
The competiting for trophies are and always will be the ambition of the club and fans winning them is a huge bonus which i think we've been more than spoiled with and it's great but that doesn't mean we couldn't/shouldn't be offering opinions when things also go wrong and if that includes questioning a coach or certain players so be it they rightfully get the praise when they do so well and i just want us to be more consistent in that we at the very least compete in 99% of our games whether thats CC or SL.
At the start of the season we have a 25man squad which is pushed up to 30 with the addition of some promising juniors i see no reason whatsoever not to utilise that squad and also reward good performances whilst also showing that certain standards won't be acceptable we are a huge club and the U20's are doing great so why not reward 1 or 2 from time to time?

Can't we just leave it at this to sum it all up?