That has nothing to do with the excuse you were trying to make regarding the CC's effect on Wigan's failure in 2011.

Why do people like yourself constantly keep referring back to the challenge cup. Over and over again. As soon as leeds grand final record is mentioned as a positive argument people constantly keep referring back to the challenge f*cking cup.

F*ck, the challenge cup. Seriously.

When Gary Hetherington took over the club, they had won only 3 titles in their entire history and his mandate was to turn the underachievers into winners, to be the best. You do that by winning championships, theres no other way round that. Despite chelsea's recent record in the FA cup United are considered the best because they keep winning titles.

As a result, the club from top to bottom is structured around giving the team the best possible chance of success in october. This means that, although the fans and the players would love to win the challenge cup there will probably be teams who are better than leeds in the latter rounds, especially the final as that is on the eve of the playoffs.

So, don't expect this to really change any time soon, unless leeds get a favourable draw and an ''easier'' final. They will still falter in the challenge cup, and be thereabouts in the playoffs.

Big game mentality, but what about the CC?

But as I explained no one else has done it, under the top eight system. Why's that?

Perhaps when Leeds win the Challenge Cup you will understand.

I will take those 6 GF wins over ALL the recent CC final losses.Am certainely not cribbing

Actually the 2011 Challenge Cup did show Leeds' big game mentality. A lot of people didn't give Leeds much of a chance going into the game and some were even tipping a +30 pts difference such was the form of the 2 teams heading into Wembley. That Leeds pushed Wigan very close and had them quite worried with 5 mins to go only emphasizes that even if we couldn't quite get the win.

Regardless of what professionals say about other professionals in the interest of possibly being team-mates for England etc etc.... I think the vast majority of us know feelings under the surface are different to the attitudes shown and exhibited.

There are ego's and therefore to some extent arrogance in most of the teams, but in Wigan it is rife! Tomkins will get found out and smashed regularly in the NRL when he jumps ship mark my words!

You can have the useless hubcap of a league leader's shield.... We'll be content with the GF me thinks!!!

So Leeds fans pretty much agree that Leeds have lost their last 6 CC Finals. However, because Leeds are an established champion team with an established big-game mentality from 2004 onwards, that must mean the CC Final couldn't possibly be regarded as a big game, otherwise Leeds champion status and big-game mentality would have won at least the last 4 of those 6 CC Finals instead of losing them all. Must be a Mickey Mouse competition for the also-rans to win instead? What a relief that a champion team with a big game mentality like Leeds don't take the CC too seriously then... just like the regular SL season really.

So in the last 10 years which club has the best big game mentality?

I don't think that Sinfield, Burrow, Maguire etc would agree with you.
You only had to look at their faces after the Huddersfield defeat to appreciate it.

Only my opinion though.

And I speak from experience of how difficult it is to win the double (Wigan beating Wakefield 27 - 3) in the 1960 Championship final.

Nobody likes losing finals not even me .I would love the core players of THE team of the 21st century to win a CC winners medal,but if I got a wish right now if I could exchange the 2005 and 20011 CC losses for any 2 GF wins I would now say no.All of the SL wins are priceless,and I bet the players would say the same now thinking back.

By the way that Wakey team was special it was a big surprise

Is that TEAM of the 21st century the one which has played in 19 finals during that period and managed to lose 10 of them? Just wishing to establish what constitutes as 21st century greatness... that's all.

I think they would agree with him entirely, and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

Of course they would also loved to have got a CC win also, but it is really scraping the barrell to suggest that they would have swapped a GF win for a CC win.