No idea what level Vickery will end up at but some of the reservations expressed remind me very much of Scott Donald's first season when, after a rpcky start, he won over most of his doubters.

So you don't think suggesting Watson try to emulate Gardner under the high ball was being sarcastic? Similary Clarkson being a winger?

Cannot remember ever resorting to pleading sarcasm when perhaps losing an argument.....now ignorance: that's a different matter

Some do appear to be getting the wrong end of the stick. I really do hope the lad does well and proves to be a major success.

However, my (and others') argument is why has an unknown unproven usurper with no pedigree being given priority to prove himself over and above the home grown acadamey lads?

Maybe he was better than them in training??????

Keinhorst sounds like he's had another good game for Hunslet. Give him a shot at centre? If he isn't going to get used now is he ever?

In what way exactly do you think?

Probably when he can have a more experienced winger outside him. I'm guessing he doesn't want to split the Moon/Hall partnership up by putting Moon over to the right centre position so that's leaves you with a potential Vickery/Keinhorst pairing......too inexperienced for the tough games we've had/have coming up IMO and unnecessary giving Ablett can give you very good quality there (granted he didn't get much joy from Percival).

Lets not forget this has then led to Ward getting starts (in which he's done very well in) and also Clarkson would then probably drop out of the 17 if Ablett headed back to the pack. So 2 other academy lads (1 of which has being earmarked for having the best prospects that any academy lad has being giving in a long time) have benifitted, just not in the backs.

Singing songs? Telling jokes? Giving home decor advice? Teaching them Latin?

How do you think!

He's probably really impressing McDermott on how better to handle a rubber glove at half time.

I've no doubt Vickery is a good trainer (if the coaching staff say so) and a tryer out on the field but that should go without saying in a professional sport. At this level he needs to offer something over and above a good work ethic.

Whatever Scott Donald's perceived weaknesses were he always had pace to burn which for a winger is always a good starting point. Even the big wingers - such as Boston, Grothe, Vaikona, Vainikolo, Hall - could still shift. By comparison Vickery looks like he's running in treacle.

Hull have a young winger (Tom Lineham - originally from Leeds(?)) who would fit the bill. Why haven't Leeds got someone like that coming through the ranks? Vickery is probably just as big but he plays without the same heart.

Maybe Vickery is stronger, fitter, better under the high ball, better positioning, better defender.

Again, I'd back the professional coaches who see the players every day, rather than max of an hour and a half a week.

Also, arguments about it being safer on the wing, I disagree. Defensively you are most exposed and weaknesses are most easily exploited.

Briscoe anyone ?!?

You seem to have made your mind up about Vickery pretty quickly. I've yet to be persuaded either way; what you see as lack of heart might just as easily be lack of confidence or, conceivably, carrying a knock.

I can't really comment on Lineham, only having seen him the odd time, but I'm not convinced that Hull's production line is the model we should aspire to. With regard to our own, I'd agree that we should be producing players for every position although a shortage of wingers worries me less than would, say, failure to develop talent at 1, 6, 7 or 9.

My mind isn't made up as such, I'm commenting on what I've seen of him so far and based on that questioning why the much vaunted Leeds Academy haven't produced someone with more of a threat to offer.

The CEO boasted this was the greatest Leeds 'squad' he'd ever assembled then started the season with Vickery in the run-on side. Is it unreasonable to hold the CEO to his word and judge the additions to the squad in those terms?

Crediting Hull's production line (Academy ?) for Lineham would be a little like crediting Leeds Academy for producing someone like Zak Hardaker. I don't give a great deal of credit for either in those instances.