Completely agree. What I was pointing out was that some players deficiencies get brought up, and are accepted. One or two seem to get discuissed over and over again. If it was all in 1 thread Kirke's would be longer than the Bailey thread

I agree. He's not cheap, like Moore or a Junior would be. In reality no-one knows what he earns in respect of the other players. What we know is that there is a strict structure at Leeds, and he will be earning comparatively little, when you consider his status within the squad


Not what has been said. Of course he needs to carry the ball, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was there to be more of a defensive player. Its the role he usually seems to do well when on the pitch

I disagree. I accept that his recent defensive performances have been error strewn, but that is not typical. If you are so keen to dismiss the efforts of assisting others tackles then either you don't understand the game as much as you like to brag, or you are trying to deflect from one of his genuine plus points. either way it does your argument no favours. In terms of an average number of tackles, I would say per game its about right (for a prop), but I would say he gets least minutes of all the props, and therefore his tackles per minute are pretty high

Its not that a successive coach has picked him, its that three sucessive coaches have picked him. Three coaches that between them have won 6 GF titles with us. And the CEO. These things don't happen by change. Decisions have to be made and only if those decisions are right the majority of the time do you end up with a success let alone 6. How could that group of people have got so many decisions right, yet missed this one for 8 years. Its just not logical. You may mock some former coaches, but they will have forgotten more about the game than we will ever know.

For example, I have watched live court cases, I have been married to a solicitor, I have read up on and discussed legal issues. I have researched laws and statutes applicable to situations that affect me. Does that mean I know more about the law than you? What if you lost your job? And decided you could do without the pressure, so ran a bar? Would I still know more than you about the law? I doubt it.


No he's lacking in 1 area of the game that you attach specific value to over all other areas. In all other areas he is competent and makes a valid contribution. Open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

true. Sometimes its hard to fathom decisions that are made

That's the problem Eagle. I can't deny this argument would have stood up in previous seasons, but doesn't no longer. He has been poor in this area this season, to compliment his other poor areas. The here, now, and future are what matters, not the past.

I also don't agree with your comment that he will be "comparatively" cheap. He is a first team regular, picked week in week out. He will be on more than Clarkson and Ward, and probably "comparative" to the likes of Moon and BJB. Of course just educated guesses though.

How dare you. I am too intelligent, good looking, articulate, well endowed and wealthy to indulge in bragging.

I would say he doesn't. I would say he gets less than JP but is comparable with the others. He gets more than Singleton, probably more than Kylie.

It might. I know feck all and spend most of my days on here but nobody seems to have found me out yet.

That would be awesome. To complete the fantasy can the wife leave me when I lose my job? I'd call the bar "Shirker Kirkes" and, of course, I would let my colleagues do all the work and carry me to success.

He very lazy. When I see him not being lazy, I will acknowledge it. I know laziness when I see it and I am well judged to see it.

I would imagine he's at a similar level to BJB, although BJB is an international of sorts inst he, so would be higher. He'd be higher than Clarkson, but probably only on tenure. Moon would be interesting, as a high profile signing from another SL club, I would anticipate on more than Kirke, but not vastly. I would imagine he'd be at the low end of anyone over 24, but above most people younger.

His current form has been poor defensively. The line between form and history is very blurred. Looking at the stats there have been some shocking games for him at times this year. You do have to question how long you give a lower performing member of the team to re-find 'form'. McShane, Clarkson et al seem to get droped on the first bad game. I can't work out what the rational is for that, yet many other players are allowed to play themselves back into form. But poor defensive form must put Kirke in line for being dropped if his attack is still not up to much, that much I agree

Nice to see a bit of variation on your arguments, by avoiding the discussion using lighthearted comments.

Of your only point worth responding to there I would say that generally the order of props is 1) Peacock 2) Leuluai 3) Bailey 4) Kirke 5) Moore

Leuluai's lack of stamina will always lead to low minutes. Probably about 35-40 mins per game
Bailey is usually first to emerge from the bench replacing Kylie. I would say of all the non-Peacock props he gets most time
Kirke in general has been used as a replacement for Peacock, probably getting similar minutes to Kylie.
Moore - often only given short minutes, and only when someone is injured

Now things have been a bit different this year, with more focus on a 'prop' at 13, which has meant that Bailey has often started, and obviously injuries move that pecking order around.

Singleton has rarely been used as a prop, though I accept the recent use of a 13 is as a prop Aussie-style. However, when available he has usually started games rather than coming on as a replacement. I would say that he probably gets more minutes too, and so he should, he looks the part.

That's the funniest thing I've heard in ages. Had us all laughing at work.

The sad thing is though when you get near him he's a giant and built like a brick outhouse unfortunately he's missing the fire and aggression to make good use of it!

Work? Congrats

That's the wrong Damo Doc!

Yeah, I'm the intellectual Damo

You're thinking of the Damo who has Nick Clegg on speed dial.

Avoiding the discussion on Kirke. I hardly think so. It's been said, ad nauseum.

You've repeated the arguments in Kirke's defence, I've addressed them I'm not interested in some epic Juan versus TVOC debate. I intend to devote as much effort to discussing Kirke going forward as kirfke devotes to match days, the bare minimum.

So, in a nutshell, he's lazy and soft.

Fair enough, don't go bringing him into another players discussion next time.

I'm sure we will be here in about 5 days time repeating it all again., until then I bid you good day