Maybe I have missed something ... at what point do rumours become evidence?
Is it when you've heard it before or is when lots of people repeat it?

You’re obviously not aware of the judicial process known as “Trail by media” which means that if something gets printed in a newspaper/tabloid and then another newspaper/tabloid prints the same/similar story it becomes fact.

According to an ex copper the BBC wheeled out this morning, who was asked why the Police seem so certain in the absence of a defendents version of events there's various ways they, or if JS were still alive the CPS, would satisfy themselves that there was a very strong case against.

In this instance it's number of people making allegations, whether other witnesses corroborate allegations, whether reports were made at the time of the incident that indicate it's not a recent fabrication and most tellingly whether there's a clear pattern/style of offending clearly described by a number of unconnected witnesses and victims.

All I can say is look at the footage of him on TOTP with Coleen Nolan. She's clearly hideously uncomfortable as he paws and mauls her. I can't believe anyone would look at the reports and patterns of behaviour, from a variety of sources, from famous people who saw and heard, the police investigations and gutless CPS failings and still think "Nah, couldn't be".

More to come. LGI, Jersey, Stoke Mandeville, coppers, lords and masons. Going to make David Peace look like Enid Blyton.

What i find interesting is the Media frenzy over ex miner Jimmy Savilles alleged indiscretions, when compared to the silence over the alleged Scottish Paedophile ring involving Judges and police officers amongst others holliedemandsjustice.org/ holliegreig.info/

What i find interesting is the Media frenzy over ex miner Jimmy Savilles alleged indiscretions, when compared to the silence over the alleged Scottish Paedophile ring involving Judges and police officers amongst others holliedemandsjustice.org/ holliegreig.info/

The media do not determine guilt or otherwise. Thank goodness given the inquiry the media is facing right now and the lack of standards the media employ.

The police do not determine guilt or otherwise. Bearing in the Hillsborough revelations a few weeks ago, thank goodness for that.

The CPS do not determine guilt or otherwise, they decide whether to prosecute.

A jury determines guilt in these instances. JS will never be found guilty or otherwise because he was not prosecuted whilst alive. The alleged victims won't be given the opportunity to see justice served. That is a result of their inaction. Not a criticism, an observation.

Anyone who is not an alleged victim that claims they knew of these alleged incidents but remained silent is a waste of oxygen and a piece of excrement. Unlike any alleged victims they had a legal and moral obligation to report these issues whatever their excuses and reasons. How many alleged victims suffered further alleged crimes after these so called eye witness remained silent.

Aside from the alleged abuse itself, this is the one aspect of the whole sorry tale which has made me sick to the stomach. The likes of Paul Gambaccini and the former producer coming out and claiming 'they knew' but never said anything, is a crime in itself (for me, anyway) - and to do it in such a matter-of-fact manner too. Cowards, the lot of 'em.

I don't blame the victims for not saying anything, but others who knew, and are now coming out of the woodwork need to have a look at themselves

i actually know Colleen , what makes her story all the more poignant and gives some insight into how all this happened in that era is that at the same time as her older sisters were telling her not to take up Savilles offer to go to his hotel room with him, the eldest sister Anne was being sexually abused by their own father, she did not mention this fact until after he and their mother had died.

Exactly. Sorry if that wasn't clear. My comments are purely about those who witnessed the going-ons and have stayed quiet for all these years, not the abused themselves.

"Now then. Now then. Now then. Guys and gals. Welcome to Top of the Pops.

Straight in at thirteen .... me!"

I just find this depressing. Someone who you thought was one of the good guys, eccentric, on his own, but one of the good guys who makes the world a better place, turns out to be a total disgrace. Then this morning there's a 1000 page dossier of evidence against Lance Armstrong - another "hero", who turns out to be a cheating, bullying $hitbag. No wonder he's gone quiet.

Depressing.

Agree, someone who was very weird and eccentric but did all of good in terms of raising money and helping people in need, turns out to be preying on these people and it would appear he had an entirely different motivation for helping at places like stoke manderville.