Quote Neruda="Neruda"his defense is based on technique, im still not sure why you think its based on physicality?
do you think he physically overpowers people in order to stop tries, rather than getting himself in fantastic positions and using skill to get underneath the ball/force the ball out?
whose are, then? or are attacking runs something that you think are based only on physicallity?
his step and change of pace, are they not skills?'"
Let's just establish a couple of things before we go around the houses once again.
1. Hardaker is a very good asset for Leeds and I am not suggesting otherwise. Neither am I suggesting we should swop him or drop him.
2. The discussion was about the claim that ZH is the best FB in SL and also that he should be moved up to SO. Therefore my comments should be taken in this context as an alternative view.
3. Fullback is regarded as one of the real key positions and one that presents some of the best attacking opportunities to create position and space for scoring chances. ZH does create good field position but so often this comes to nothing because he chose not to use an overlap or chose to try and beat another man when a pass would have been better for the team.
3. My use of the word physicality is not meant to denigrate ZH. Rugby is one of the most physical games in the world so having physicality is a great asset. Hardaker's fullback style is in the same mould as Kenny (Bucket) Thornett one of my boyhood heros in our first championship winning side in 1961. He is also in the mould of Wellans another full back whose game is based on physicality but who developed the creative side of his game. However as my rugby experience and tastes matured, I came to appreciate the subtler fullback skills of the likes of ET, Homes, Harris, Webb, Slater & Inglis ( the latter combines great physicality with great skill too). I do believe that ZH's current game is based on great physicality and very good work rate but is deficient in other key skills IMO.
Quote Neruda="Neruda"no i didnt, its just something that wasnt raised in any of your posts
i could probably think of a couple of times where zak may have made defensive mistakes
i could probably think of a dozen, if not more, where his last ditch tackles saved tries, not to mention the number of times he took challenged high balls incredibly well'"
My criticism of his defense is a bit picky and was not in my original comments (see point 2 above)
Quote Neruda="Neruda"when you look at the stat 'per game', rather than by 'per carry' it paints a diferent picture though, doesnt it?
Wellens made 15 try assists in 26 games, (with some games played at half back) Hardaker made 13 try assists in 21 games.
Hardaker made 102 tackle busts in 21 game, Dorn made 56 in 18 but has a better busts/carry average? LOL
didnt Godinet play hooker of the bench for most of the season bench too?'"
Quote Neruda="Neruda"the stats im looking at dont support that at all, i guess because im not looking at 'stat per carry'.
he made 13 try assists and scored 8 tries, which seems about right - he scored or assisted a try on average in every game he played for us
the attacking play i see from him, couple with the (easily best in the league) defensive full back abilities make him for me the best in league at his position.
could he improve in attack? certainly. he cant throw that cut out pass like Webb could, but who in the league can?'"
Stats per game is interesting but without knowing the minutes played is flawed.
Eg1: a winger might have no passes whatsoever in a game and to discredit his try scoring ability on his stat for that game would not be fair.
Eg2 a forward who only comes on for 10 minutes will have poor stats per game but may have made big meters per carry. tackle busts and clean breaks per carry.
Therefore a better and fairer evaluation is by using 'per carry' stat which shows a players effectiveness with hands on the ball.
eg1: ZH made a try assist every 30.76 carries while Escare is every 17.75, Eden every 17.89, Rankin every 15.9 and Wellans every 15.66
eg2: ZH made a tackle bust every 3.88 carries (note his strong suit) while Escare made one TB every 2.78 carries, Bowen 3.2, Dorn 3.5, Russell 3.57
eg3: ZH scored a try evey 50 carries, while Escare scored a try every 10.5 carries, Dorn 12.25, Owens 18.5, Wellans 19.58, Shaul 22.37, Hanbury 22.66, Rankin 23, Grix 29, Mathers 30, Eden 30.9, Bowen 30.9 and Lomas 45 (who missed half the season)
Most of the players will have played in another position at some stage during the season.
Quote Neruda="Neruda"his passing is certainly not the best for a full back, i agree. but i dont think he's really had chance to properly display his kicking or creativity yet given his role/position, but again it is probably still raw compared to most half backs.'"
I agree on the first point but have reservations regarding you other points. We shall see,
Quote Neruda="Neruda"i believe all things considered he's the best full back in the league, if you disagree then that's fine.
i know i wouldnt swap him for any other full back in the league right now, and i believe he's still going to get even better.
lets hope we can get him signed up for a few more years yet so we can find out
'"
I would agree he is one of the best in SL but I do not think any of us can be a fair judge as we only see glimpses of the other contenders.
I think that Watkins could be an outstanding attacking FB as IMO he would revel in the extra space and opportunities that this position would give him compared with the restraints of the modern day centre position.
'"
