I think we saw the best of Tony Smith. Hardaker has said it in an interview that when he got the ball deep, the defence were on him. It just seemed like they had us worked out and were ready for everything we threw at them.

Whilst it's not time to overreact, McD does need to sit down and learn the lessons from our defeats because they have come in similar fashion. It seems like we have a gameplan and that's it. If it doesn't work we struggle.

Not enough speed in the halves which means we're easy to read. It's not a problem if we get quick ball to the backs and the forwards are on a roll, but Friday showed we aren't going to dominate the big boys.

I didn't care about the loss if it helps make us more complete for the end of the season.

As a side note, thought we looked stronger in defence until R Ward went off, even though he was blowing. Would also start Singleton with Kylie off the bench.

Just before the Leuluai try I think they referenced the last time Leeds were nilled which was 27th September 1998 at Halifax.

For anyone interested these are the last time Leeds scored the following -

0 - 27th September 1998
1 - 16th October 1984
2 - 12th July 2007
3 - 18th January 1981
4 - 6th April 2012
5 - 30th September 1987
6 - 30th May 2014 (and on five other occasions under Brian McDermott)

Which game was this? Am vaguely remembering Widnes in a cup replay under lights?

Seem to remember in 2013 we weren't allowed to go back to 2012 to judge.
And in 2012 we weren't allowed to go back to 2011 to judge.

Of course when it's a trophyless season we can go back and use it

The game from September '87 was a 16 - 5 Yorkshire Cup Semi-Final defeat at Odsal.

The game you are recalling was the Challenge Cup Quarter-Final Replay at Headingley March '86 (David Creasser scoring all the game's points in a terrific try-less encounter), game four of the unforgettable sequence V Widnes over a eighteen day period.

That's the one. Thanks!

For only the 2nd time in 7 years but I'm sure you're fully aware of what's different this year to last and why last year was different to the previous year, regarding injuries (touch wood!!).

Exactly, we could use 2010 and say as that was the most recent example then concerns about whether we'd succeed in 2011 playoffs, and we all know how that ended. Likewise for Wigan last year, that they didn't get the job done in 2012 didn't stop them in 2013.

As I see it, nothing I've seen this year has me doubting that we can't win the GF. That's not to say we will as it's so close between some of the teams at the top that injuries could swing things, and I don't believe we have yet to see anybody ruled out for the season for any club (maybe Thornley at Wigan???). Also of course who hits a purple patch in form come September and NOBODY on here knows which teams will and won't despite some claiming we'll be knackered by Playoff time.

Some people love to take Leeds' worst showing and say this is why we won't win anything this year whilst holding it up against some of the best performances from our rivals.

It can easily be spun and we can use the wins Leeds had against the likes of Wigan, Saints and Wire this year to say we can. We can look at what Saints played like at Magic vs Wire, or what Wire played like vs Saints round 1, or the Wigan side beaten well by Hudds twice and were unable to get the job done at Cas like Leeds and Saints managed to do and say theses games perhaps show they won't win the GF.

A discussion on whether Leeds can win the GF or not, and whether Friday was a poor performance, are totally different to what was said above.

On recent experience we do not know that we will come good when it matters, which is what was said.

However, is this team capable of winning the GF, is a yes. But totally different to the other point.

You get so defensive that at times I'm not sure even you know what point you are arguing.

That was some game, and some sequence.

In my recolection wasn't Creasser penalised in the original cup encounter at Widnes for throwing a Widnes players boot away? I seem to remember the penalty was kicked. And we complain about random refereeing these days.

Goes back to The Magic Rat's post about how we've peaked more than any other team at the business end of the year, it was then attempted to be dismissed by saying no look at 2013.

That's not what he said at all. Had he said that, it is quite clear as we have more wins than anyone else, therefore peaked more than anyone else.

What he said was, we had nothing to worry about this year, as we had proven time and time again that we can peak at the end of the season. I just simply offered the view that, except for recent times, i.e. last year.

If you then want to get into a discussion about it, that is still different to the point raised. However, we didn't succeed last year due to tired, busted bodies, on important players. Those same players are a year older still, or two years older since it last worked.

Therefore it wouldn't be right to rest your argument on what has happened previously. Far better to rest it on what are these players capable of.

I never said we had nothing to worry about. Feel free to show me the quote.
I said posters writing the side off COULD end up with egg on their face as the team have proved in previous seasons we have been able to perform when it has counted.
We didn't last season, but as pointed out this we failed to win in 2010 and 06 but came back the following season to win the competition.

It was Cliff Lyons that threw the boot (belonging to Tony Myler) away, it was reported by the touch judge to referee Gerry Kershaw who gave the penalty for 'ungentlemanly conduct.' Leeds queried the ruling after the match with Joe Manly (referee assessor at the game) who stated a letter had been sent to all clubs just a couple of weeks earlier regarding such issues. Leeds claimed to have seen no sight of said communication.

As a postscript to the excellent last minute angled penalty equaliser from the boot of Creasser - who had earlier missed with all five of his attempts - Leeds almost kicked the ball to touch believing they were still four points in arrears before frantic messages got through from the bench via the players across the width of the pitch.