No but to win it you have to be challenging - something that seems a distant memory!!

At least we won't be playing the Kiwis this autumn

Don't be silly, why on earth would Fev even care if we loaned them players for what are essentially meaningless fixtures for them, the only one who had been playing regularly for them was Baldwinson anyway

Well if they didn't care to have them then why did they accept and play them every week?

1 They are better players than what they had
2 So we send them players when they DO need them

With number 1 you've just answered why they would want them. Also the Middle 8's aren't meaningless for them, whilst a top 3 spot or even a MPG spot probably didn't enter their expectations, the higher they finish the more prize money they get. If they could've finished the best of the "other 3" Championship teams and been in 6th they would've got more money which at their level they'd very much want. Even a win vs London next week (and Batley lose to Salford) would get them a nice jump up in prize money.

Sums it up for me. Add in the worst kicking game in super league. The other part for me is it is so turgid and dull to watch. Lilley got hurt today driving the ball out of our 20, there was and always is loads of one out drives. We have moon, Watkins and briscoe and just don't get them in the game with any decent ball. I have seen worse Leeds teams with far worse players but our play in possession is now at Peter Fox levels for dull, boring rubbish.

That performance today was many many things, none of it good, but it wasnt spineless. We did nothing but defend for 60 minutes and in the main did it well.

If this is worst Leeds team youve ever seen you cant have watched many in 80s and 90s.

Dont get me wrong the performance today was shambolic, clueless and ill disciplined and very very poor. Dont think there was a lack of effort tho.

Ive long come to the conclusion that McD is going absolutely nowhere so ive given up commenting on it as its pointless. As for big player changes it simply isnt possible when all the squad bar Achurch are contracted for next yr. Yes Zak might go and maybe someone like Cuthbo might claim homesickness that will free up cap space but who knows? Unlikely i would think.

It wasnt by any means Lilley's fault today but if he is the answer ive no idea what the question is. Ive no idea what people see in the lad at all but as i say todays 1st half had many faults and he wasnt alone. I thought Golding did well when he came on as a positive.

All in all a miserable day be glad when season is over but cant see many changes happening at all for next yr rightly or wrongly.

I said the team was spineless, not the performance yesterday, so I ask to read it right. As for the 80's and 90's, read again. I have been going 39 years on the trot, I said we had worse players, but we have not had a team serve up such turgid crap as this week after week. That is the problem. We are so far behind the teams at the top here, who to be frank are also somewhat lacking, that it is frightening.

How this is been ignored from the top is somewhat worrying. But when fans are gullible enough to believe it, maybe not surprising.

But as i said the team defended set after set after set yesterday plenty of it thru their own poor play but i thought we defended well really given the amount of ball Huddersfield had so i cant agree with the word spineless at all. There are plenty of negative words i could use but spineless to me means lack of effort and i saw plenty of effort yesterday. Dont get me wrong tho it was a very poor performance.


As for not having team serve up crap like this week after week are you being serious? Come on pal while this season has been bad what about the season pre GH? We lost virtually ever game by 50 as the club imploded. What about in the Robin Dewhirst era? Weve had plenty of teams who havent give a and being purely at Headingley for the money. I dont believe thats the case with this team at all.

As for other fans being gullible. They are perfectly entitled to their opinions. It doesnt mean you have to go on every single thread going on and on about the same old things like you do.

Marty - Leeds weren't turgid and useless for for anywhere near as long continuously under Dewhurst (Mick Adams crossbar try in CC semi 82, finalists in John Player Trophy 83). In 96 we had a bargain basement squad as a result of the financial implosion - nowhere near as much quality on paper as this year., and we averaged a high 32 points against due to several blowouts. On the flip side we scored a lot more on average, so at least could be entertaining.

This season we lost 16 of our first 20 games in all competitions. That's waaay worse than anything over the past 30+ years. If we'd carried on that way we would have finished bottom and seen a number of horrible records fall. As it is we ended up outside the top flight for the first time EVER since we joined it over a hundred years ago. From what I've seen a lot of those early performances were spineless in every sense - our spine being rubbish and the team generally gutless.

I have little doubt BM will be coach next year, but really can't see anything other than a bog average season at best.

To be fair we was pretty turgid from 1980 to 1997 if we are honest about it.

Yes this year has been awful, yes next yr looks similar to this then we can move players out and rebuild probably under a new coach. Weve just come over a fantastic 12 years of success and that period is over but there is no point harping on and on about how poor we have been.

To say this is worst team in last 40 years is ridiculous to me.

This, we were not has bad as people make out in those poor years. I remember well the hammerings and the one against Wire and calling for Peter Fox's head, but they wer intermittent, not consistent like this side. This coach has lost the plot.

And Marty, when I said spinleless I was talking about the side. We have no spine, no halfbacks, no fullback. You can not build on a team like that.

I know this will not be believed by certain posters, but just this very morning I was talking with Sinfield and Peacock in the gym. For those that want to check out it was Thorpe Park. Niether gave a lot away, as both far too professional, but a face can say as much as words. Both however said Hindsight is great, and if Leeds could rewind time I am sure they would, but you live and learn and the club have got a lot wrong this year. Both agreed that it will take longer than the fans will probably afford them to get things right again. I asked them both to get their boots out again and show them how it is done. Peacock said after this year that is it for ever now, although the lad still looked fit enough to me in the gym.

I began watching Leeds in the mid 80s and whilst we had a brittle under belly for most of that time and no consistency, you have to take into consideration we and everyone else won little due to Wigan being so damn good. But i still enjoyed being a season ticket holder and going to games home and away back then, i wouldn't have called us a turgid side at all and when we turned it on, particularly during the Laughton years, we were a joy to watch with the likes of Schoey and Ellery pulling the strings and backs like Tait, Iro and Innes running off the back of it.

I would struggle to pick out a game during this season where i have felt we were firing on all fronts and giving value for money as a side to watch.

You can always tell when the bottom of the performance barrel is being scraped when fans begin to argue which side was the worst we've ever had - a sort of "good old days" scenario in reverse: "If you think this lot are sh$te then you should have seen...".