We do tend to gloss over the 2011 and 2012 5th places, which were the subject of much gnashing of teeth during the season but were forgiven due to winning the comp at the end of the year. It also shouldn't be forgotten that the apparent actual coaches in Sinfield and Peacock were here all through that time - as they were at the back end of 2014 when the team went on holiday after the CC final.

To add to someone else's point about the coach not being responsible for knock-ons and poor decisions etc, I'd argue quite the opposite if its happening every week for half a season. The odd game of dropsy happens to the best, but an ongoing pattern should lead to serial offenders being dropped if nothing else works.

Yes Printer that's correct, those trophy results form a part of those overall figures - it was more an observation of the ratio of points won and McDermott's current standing having fallen below that of a previous Leeds coach the then CEO had the foresight to sack mid season giving the job to a recently retired former player who played an important role in Leeds' future successes. I imagine you realised that for yourself.

Whatever happened to that CEO?

Super League titles

McDermott - 3
McClennan - 2
Smith - 2
Powell - 0
Murray - 0
Lance - 0
Bell - 0

Challenge Cups

McDermott - 2
Murray - 1
Smith - 0
McClennan - 0
Powell - 0
Lance - 0
Bell - 0

Is anybody arguing that BM hasn't achieved outstanding results in terms of trophies? Does that mean we should bring back Syd Hynes or should we look at a return for Powell once BM leaves?

I think a lot of people overestimate how good Powell was when he got the Leeds gig a couple of years early, but the evidence suggests he's probably a much better coach today.

I can neither confirm or deny that and neither can you. It would be very strange situation if the head coach had no input into first team player recruitment. GH may do the deal once the targeted players have been agreed.

So I would suggest the coach cannot escape blame for the abysmal attempts at replacing those key players

Sinfield and Peacock became key to the coaching at the point McDermott took over the full rugby side of things. That was 2013, not before then.

You do a great job of swerving some well made points that don't fit your agenda. It would be good if you addressed some of points made in Gilder's post regarding the true effectiveness/impact of our current coach on the success of the team during his tenure?

So Sinfield and Peacock weren't heavily involved before then? Even if not they were the 'coaches' during the dire end to 2014 weren't they?

No matter what people think of McD he aint going anywhere

I don't think he will yet either. But do you think he'd stay if Leeds were relegated?

Assuming you answer correctly that he'd leave then, the question really is how long he gets towards the pointy end of the season before a change is forced on the club if we continue playing like a pub team. I seriously find it hard to believe that if we continue to be walloped on a weekly basis that at some stage around the start of the Middle 8s GH wouldn't pull the pin.

If on the other hand we start showing the long-promised signs of improvement then he'll see out the year. However I'd think that he'd be effectively on notice for next year even if we sweep through the Middle 8s.

The most bizarre thing is that had we even simply plodded along mid table this wouldn't even have been a subject for much discussion apart from those fans who never liked/rated BM. He had so much credit in the bank it really is amazing that he's seemingly managed to burn through so much of it in less than a year.

Struggling a bit during the season, most folk can handle.

No sign of ANY improvements and indeed "playing like a pub team" - Unacceptable.

2011 was IMO Brian's best season. He started with a new club and obviously wanted to do a few different things. As I remember there was a penalty fest by refs at the start of that season and Leeds were getting hit with 20+ per game sometimes. We started without Mags and Peacock (both knee reconstructs) and didn't quite click early doors and lost a lot of games early season but from April we were fine, we scored just about the same number of league points as Wigan but with our poor start we could only make 5th. After the CC we were pretty much the form team going into the playoffs. We had Mags and Peacock back. Not such a surprise as it looked when we got to OT.
2012 we started like we finished 2011 but then the wheels came off and it looked like everyone forgot how to play. This was where we got to see McD's confusing coaching effect. The players dug him out of that one by producing a truly heroic win against Wigan in the playoffs which was one of the gutsiest I've ever seen.
But that's a long time ago now.

Is that you Gary?.........

My inside man tells me Rob and Macca have had a falling out.

That was last year.