Oh right, i see what what you meant now.

Not making OT would mean we have failed this season.The club has set high standards of success over the last 10 years.Im sure Mcdermott would accept this too, and be willing to take the flak that will come his way.I just feel sometimes the knives are always sharpened for him and any slip up and lot of fans cant wait to rip in despite his good record.

Just for the record if we don't make it to old trafford then I would consider the season a failure, but I would not like to see BM sacked.
I am more or less neutral about BM as a coach, although I think senior players in most successful teams tend to influence games. We have been lucky in having peacock and sinfield two mature and strong willed players who no doubt motivated the rest of the team.
The great Wigan side had Hanley and Sean Edwards players who demanded and got commitment from the rest of the team.
Having watched leeds since the sixties I have obviously seen a fair number of coaches, some gifted and others downright awful.
All major teams go through the peaks and trough cycle, it's how deep the trough is and how you manage your way out of it is the vital part of coaching and management .
At the moment I am not certain about us, mainly due to the glut of injuries we have suffered we have not been able to turn out a settled and consistent side for quite some time. Danny Mc Guirres injury has hit us hard,I am certain if he had been on the field against HKR he would have conjured something up.

I think I should expand on my comment of the season being a failure if we don't reach old trafford .
It would be pretty boring if we got to old trafford every year, so I would be quite content if some years we won nowt,so long as the effort was there.
The reason why we should be at old trafford this year is the strength and quality of the squad, I think next year we will be weaker unless GH spends some money. This he claims he will not do, his ambition is to promote from within,we shall see on that topic.
If you look back to how well we played in the world challenge final and an outstanding victory at saints you can see we have the capabilities of rising to the occasion.
All will be revealed in the next few weeks.

I dont think we should be too hard on the Coach or squad for not making OT should that happen afterall other teams have been just as good and better than us.
Where i think there should be bigger questions raised is with some of Mc'D's selections and the transition within the pack also who is retained/signed etc etc but that should definately also involve GH.
Whatever our past success it's clear imo that the squad needs freshening up and certain players moving on/new arrivals.
I think the transition within the backs has been decent but they are not getting utilised properly imo and as for some of the forwards i just dont see how they are still here let alone retained for next year and beyond.

So why do we need a coach then if it's the conditioning team that obviously win us titles?

Let's just sweep aside the achievements of TS, Bluey and BMcD - it's Jason Davidson who deserves all the credit.

Sometimes I think you're on a different planet to the rest of us.

Did I suggest that?

You suggested we should congratulate McDermott for getting these players to peak at the right time of year, where a group of them have been doing it for a number of years. I just stated the bloody obvious in that three coaches in a row have done that with the same conditioning team.

Isn't it the conditioning team role to ensure the players peak at the right time?

Has McDermott asked the conditioning team to do it differently to Smith and Bluey before him? I don't know by the way, but would guess he is sticking to the tried and tested.

There's a lot more to peaking at the right time than "conditioning"

To be honest from our showings this year I don't conclude that the forwards are main worry going into 2014. I think this year has shown the weak spot to be 6,7 & 9. We've not struggled really to get into the opposition 20, we have however struggled to score once there.

I wouldn't be concerned if we go into 2014 with this as our strongest choice 17 forward line-up.
PROPS - Peacock, Leuluai, Singleton, Bailey
2nd ROW - Delaney, JJB, Ward
LOOSE - Ablett, Sutcliffe

However we all pretty much agree that Burrow shouldn't be an 80 minutes starting hooker and although some have called for it I don't think the role of Loose Forward nowadays (more a stronger forward than extra playmaker type) is one Sinfield can or should fill. That leaves Sinfield, Burrow & McGuire all best suited to the halves.....but 3 into 2 doesn't go, but as mentioned above I don't think any should be playing anywhere other than the halves.....so that leaves the big question/dilemma/decision of.......one of the golden trio has to make way.

That is what the 2013 season has really shown us.

Accepted. But you can't do it without the conditioning team doing their job to the planned strategy. Various ingredients make up that "peaking".

Hence why the players and coaches over a number of years now have praised that department of the club.

The point is, I doubt that strategy and tied and tested way has changed since the last year of Smith. Same result each time, no matter who the coach was.

You still have to have the players in the right frame of mind. But even Graeme West won the title at the back end of Wigan's dominance. Christ, he actually did better than the previous as he won the grand slam of all four trophies available. He's in the history books, but he wasn't the reason for it. Where did he go from there, in a relative very short time after it?

I was just about to say the very same - It's about getting the team to peak both physically AND mentally.

It is the coaches job to ensure that both these aspects happen and the same time and, more importantly at the right time. BMcD should be praised for getting this right for the last two years.

I think even beyond that, there are aspects about how you play, and when. If you attack the same way all year, teams will work it out eventually. We always seem to come up with something new, against opponents who have running the same systems for ten months.

I'd agree to a point re the forwards, except I think part of the reason why we've struggled in the opposition 20 is a lack of movement and support runs primarily from the forwards. Whether that's by design or not I don't know.

I dont disagree Printer but i still feel we need at the very least 1 younger quality Prop.
JP can't keep carrying this pack plus i think even more so next year we have to rotate better with Kylie staying and i'd like to see Kirke and Moore minimum to be released.

Add Delaney, JJB and Bailey back into the pack and we are likely to see a significant improvement.

You never been to Gipton or Harehills then?