Interesting comments from JJB on the current state of the game in SL... www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p047cx8m

Interesting comments from JJB on the current state of the game in SL... www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p047cx8m

Totally disregard JJBs opinion. Surely due to his Leeds commitments he doesn't go to enough games to have an opinion.

Just ask Gotcha.

So, is he saying the ruck is too quick, or too slow?

Yeah I couldn't quite work out what he meant by that.

Has been talks bollox shock

He's right to a degree , too much wrestling , too much interference at the PTB ( although a lot less since Buderus went back to OZ ) , too many forward passes ( who might that be ?)

He wasn't saying there was too much wrestling, his point was that it's hard to control the tackle because the ball carriers are going straight to ground moving off the mark to play the ball fast or win a penalty. He then talked about how Widnes dealt with Wigan's attempts to do this by piling on and by being prepared to concede penalties to slow Wigan down.
He's making some pretty complex observations about how teams attack now and how teams counter that and how unattractive that is to watch. I agree with him.

Yep. Another issue with players moving off the mark is then with the markers. We had to change the rules re markers because of this and now it's almost impossible for a marker to be penalised for not square. Which has a knock on effect on attacks.

Does anyone else think fans don't really seem to care anymore?

Alot of games seem souless. You watch games on tv at the likes of wigan and saints and there's no atmosphere, no intensity from the crowd. These used to be real intimidating places to play at because of the noise from the crowd, obviously saints are at a different ground but wigan aren't. On friday wigan a team with a traditionally strong away following hardly took any fans to hull. Thery still have a chance of finishing top!

It used to feel like there was an attitude that if a team lost a game, or a team competing for honours lost a game should I say, there was big problems! It was bad! You felt this from the crowd, from the noise that was generated when certain things happened in the game. Now it just feels like 'meh'.

Too many games and a structure that really only offers a poor illusion of importance.

Regarding the points above, obviously we have more games now but it's not just since the super 8's format was introduced. It's been a gradual malaise set in over years.

You mention illusion of importance, but again that doesn't stack up. We had intensity from the fans when we had the old playoff format's which had arguably less resting on the games week by week because you really need to be in the top 4 or damn close to it to have a chance of playing to get to the GF. Before you could finish lower down and still have a good chance.

So although I don't think the current situation can be blamed on the current format, it seems to date back to circa 2008 when licensing and then the top 8 was subsequently introduced. Because those 2 things did really sterilize the competition, due to the points you mentioned. We don't so much specifically have those problems with the format any longer any longer, but things aren't improving.

Reading the Wigan board they're fed up of the style of play. Probably goes for most teams as they aren't attractive to watch.

You all need to start playing like the Leythers

The issue JJB brings up has a few starting points.

Firstly, we have a new generation of refs coming through and they seem to be under instruction to just make a best guess and so its almost in both attack and defence to have a messy ruck because you are going to win/lose penalties and knock ons regardless

Secondly, its a quality issue, however slow the ruck is, if you can't score more than 6 points on the back of 20 penalties and against 11 men at times, that's a lack of quality in attack.

Thirdly, there is a good chance that we are reaping the legacy of the decision not to go to two refs.

Attendances were growing up to 2012, so I disagree that this is the endpoint of an 8 year malaise as you put it.

By illusion of importance I mean something I mentioned as a negative of this system before it started. Importance is a zero sum game. This system hasn't created importance, just shared what there was differently . Previously we had one aim. To win the GF everything was geared towards 1 aim and everyones achievement was decided at the same time. Now clubs like Widnes and Wakefield etc etc had achieved their Aim with nearly 3 months of the season to go, Les Catalans nd Cas failed in theirs (realistically) with 6 weeks or so to go, Leeds have been going through the motions for months

And the fact we play so many games means that each one is of less importance. Even take the Qualifiers, leigh have secured promotion and still need to play 2 games, Salford haven't bothered playing for a month and aren't relegated.

The easiest and best way to deal with the play the ball is to firstly, make the players stand on both feet and play the ball with the foot (or at least attempt to) secondly if the attackers are moving forward on the knees or move sideways of the mark make them move back to the mark, if they are persistently doing it and trying to milk penalties, penalise them. It won't be long before teams get the message, we then have a slightly slower but cleaner play the ball, there will then be no or less reason to niggle wrestle or hands in. We then just get a good defensive line and teams having to play some good old fashion football to break defence down. If that means bringing in a second ref like NRL then so be it, but the game will be miles better and fairer to watch. To me it's that simple.