Why did we abandon the tactics of kicking on the 3rd tackle, which worked so well against Wigan in the semi? We were offering no threat whatsoever on the sets coming out of our own half. Waiting for their back 3 to get set and then kicking it down their throats was not a great idea. We all know that Hodgson doesn't like bringing it out on his own either (thanks Kylie).

I know Ward and Sinfield is a new halfback combination, but we literally put no plays on at all. It was hope for a quick PTB from Peacock or JJB and rush from dummy half. You will not break down the better teams without moving the ball.

I thought that again came largely down to our collisions in the middle. Losing those meant a slow PTB. That meant the Warrington defence was able to set and apply more pressure to our kicker, exasperated by their really being only Sinfield to kick. If you look at the kicks, you'll notice Sinfield typically had to take a look at the defence as the ball was being played and then catch and kick. Warrington's kickers typically had time to take a second look after catching the pass before kicking. That's why they were able to find space and we often couldn't.

So much comes down to collisions, and controlling the tackle and PTB.

I agree with what you're saying Richie, I just thought that Kev in particular could have taken a bit more control, regardless of the speed of the play the ball.

I think Sinfield and Co were expecting foul wet weather throughout the contest given the forecast, along with a possible war of attrition where points are at a premium. Hence when the downpour occurred, Sinfield reverted to wet weather Grand Final mode kicking on 3rd/4th tackles in the hope of pegging Warrington back and choking the life out of the game and the opposition. Unfortunately, the wet weather didn't persist and the game plan ended up being flushed down the Wembley drains.

Anyone else smell those drains on Saturday? Poooooh!

Couldnt agree more - This is something that we have been relatively poor at for a while. Our 'wrestle' technique, and control of the speed of the play the ball is a long way behind Wigan and Warrington, and probably even Huddersfield, Saints and Catalans.

I also thought our lack of a structured attack hampered our chances. Whenever we play Wigan or Warrington - If they start a set in our half, I know they are going to test our defence. However, with us, the closer we get to the opposition try line, it sometimes feels the less likely we are to break the defence down.

Generally, on our day, I think we are strong in most areas, but weaknesses in these 2 fundemental areas are probably the difference between us and the likes of Wigan and Warrington. In being stronger in these 2 areas, Wigan and Warrington are able to perform better on a more consistent basis. And unfortunately, because of this, their best performances are currently better than our best performances.

Or in other words ..... coaching.

Yeah - I didnt simply want to put that though. I do wonder what 'coaching' is actually happening at the moment though. I dont really see anything different in how we play now, to how we played under Bluey (not exactly known as a great tactitian). However, I do see a massive difference in our style and approach to the years under Smith and Powell. McDermott certainly doesnt appear to have stamped his 'style' on the team.

Maybe this is due to the core number of players who have remained with the team right through from the Powell/Smith eras to the current team.

The hodge isnt as bad bringing the ball out, dont know why you think he doesnt like it ?

Kev was targeted and particularly on the fith so kicking early would have worked, iirc he did kick early a few times b4 the rain but on the other hand you cannot go 80 min kicking early, its about going early when the time is right or as part of a set play.

I recon that if you were expecting rain and traind for that then thats a massive balls up, surely you should be preparing to play the game not the weather? Our game didnt change because of the rain. Also expecting to out muscle us was another faux par negate our pack and your chances would have increased dramatically.

I think the plan V Wigan on exit sets was to kick after the fourth rather than after the third (I'd have to check to be sure) and I think Leeds did a bit of that at Wembley also although again I'd have to check but please don't make me.

Leeds got off to a flyer on the scoreboard V Wigan because Tomkins isn't the best under a high bomb if you hit the mark spot on as Sinfield did for Hall's first, on the next Leeds set Tomkins let a harmless looking kick dribble into touch for a 40:20 - Jones-Bishop try in the attacking set that followed and I think it was two sets later when Charnley unexpectedly spilled a kick return which ened with Hardaker scoring after a forward pass from I think Sinfield to Peacock was missed by Thaler and his officials.

I imagine Wigan couldn't believe how badly they'd handled the opening and I bet Leeds were pretty shocked too on how efficiently they'd made them pay for their misakes.

A triumph of tactics or a shocking opening by Wigan? Warrington were nowhere near as generous at Wembley although I suspect Leeds were attempting to replicate the 4th tackle kicks on exit sets. Somebody check for me.

The Warrington tactics were obvious from the start when they pressurised Sir Kev on every kick - even when the ball had gone / Abblett punched in the face - they were fired up This compares to our total of lack of pressure on Briers, who should have been taken out in the same manner. If you see the opposition punch one of your players smack in the face, & only a penalty given, you don"t have to be a brain surgeon to realise that you can get stuck into the opposition - where were our enforcers ?
Other questions -
- why when we have a winger over 6 feet ( BJB ) against Riley do we never once put a kick on that wing ?
- why against a team with a stronger pack do you have a bench with only 2 big forwards + Lunt _ the kid ?
- why are our wrestling / holding down techniques so inferior to the other top teams
- why cant the coaching staff realise that when you lose the best tackling hooker that I have seen ( been watching Leeds for over 40 years ) & replace him with a second rater from Huddersfiled or McShane, who had been tried & failed under 2 previous coaches , that it is not going to work ?

- need I go on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Replacing Buderus was always going to be difficult, but at least the plan there is understabndable - Burrow to spell with AN Other. Personally I think Lunt is solid and no more, and prefer McShane when I've seen him.

As for the rest, getting smashed up the middle with a complete inability to control the tackle in defence is always going to cause huge problems defensively, and Warrington have some very smart players and a team which knows how to run set plays very well. The only chance we have against that sort of attack is to control the PTB and slow it right down to allow the defence time to move.

In attack the lack of structure was also there under Smith at times as well, where we frequently looked more dangerous from further out. What ALL coaches in SL should be doing is looking at the way Wire and Wigan run their attack close to the line. Or even better, have a look at the NRL where every side at least tries to do it. Why Leeds seem to have no idea of how to set up an attacking set of tackles is beyond me.

too right, our next run on the next set should have been straight at one of their strike players, briers/myler/etc, with a view to landing one square in the face after the play the ball.

One of the things that I just cant get my head around is why we dont use Watkins more. He's probably the best 1 on 1 attacker in the league, and certainly one of the best attackers given any space. However, we hardly ever seem to create the space for him. We just chuck him the ball and hope he does it all himself. Where are the plays to suck defenders into the middle of the field, or dummy runners to take some defenders away from him.

Used correctly, he could be the most potent attacker in the league - at the moment he's a bit of a passenger, with the ability to make something out of nothing every now and then.

Agreed, with his footwork, speed and strength he has all the assets to be a great centre. However, playing on the right means naturally he gets less ball.

Naturally, yes..... Which is exactly why the structures and coaching should be aimed at creating field position to then use a manufactured move/set play to get the ball to him early and in space. A coach like Tim Sheens, Michael McGuire, Wayne Bennett, Craig Bellamy in the NRL would have a field day with Watkins in their team - they'd have numerous full sets all structured with the aim of giving him just 1 tackle in the set with a bit of space.

We however completey waste him.