FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Was Mr Hetherington Right?
35 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach2093No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200420 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2020Jul 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



It was a brave decision by Gary Hetherington at the start of the month to effectively lay the blame for the clubs slump squarely at the feet of the players. It’s often the coach that is removed in these circumstance, already this season we have seen Royce Simmons lose his job after a similar poor run of form at St Helens. But is that the right course of action?
Certainly it is cheaper to replace one man rather than half a team. It’s also true that fans form more of a bond with players meaning its often more acceptable, indeed expected, by the fans that the coach will go. But is that the right course of action?
By publically confirming that he lays the blame at the players feet Hetherington has spun convention on its head. Afterall, this is a team that has won the Grand Final 4 out of the last 5 years. If that’s failure then every other team in the country aspires to fail as much as Leeds. So is Gary Hetherington right, is it the players fault?
What Hetherington is suggesting is that the current squad has perhaps ‘run its race’. You can interpret this many ways, but the collective wisdom is to take this to mean that many of the players that have been part of the squad over the recent cup laden years are past their best. That helps us to target the players he is talking about. Because of that I have targeted players who have played over 100 league games including playoffs (roughly 4 seasons accounting for the number of grand finals reached in that time) at the club. That accounts for 12 out of the current squad of 30.
There are of course many ways you can measure a players performance. There are clean breaks, tackles made, tackles missed, handling errors, decisive passes and so on. However, there is one crucial statistic that if you get right makes the rest irrelevant. If you score more tries than your opponents you will win far more games than you lose. With that in mind, I have homed in on that trait in the table below.
2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Av
Carl Ablett N/A 0.00 0.08 0.20 0.24 0.11 0.21 0.27 0.16
Ryan Bailey 0.08 0.07 0.12 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.12 0.11 0.06
Rob Burrow 0.68 0.45 0.46 0.45 0.36 0.25 0.40 0.27 0.42
Ryan Hall N/A N/A 0.30 0.69 1.07 0.89 1.04 0.87 0.81
JJB 0.28 0.21 0.17 0.21 0.29 0.15 0.42 0.17 0.24
Ian Kirke N/A 0.14 0.04 0.09 0.06 0.08 004 0.00 0.06
Kylie Leuluai N/A N/A 0.03 0.22 0.10 0.00 0.14 0.07 0.09
Danny McGuire 0.73 1.14 0.57 0.67 0.44 0.89 0.71 1.00 0.77
Jamie Peacock N/A 0.12 0.07 0.07 0.28 0.00 0.07 0.00 0.09
Kevin Sinfield 0.23 0.09 0.17 0.14 0.15 0.17 0.07 0.07 0.14
Lee Smith 0.67 0.41 0.44 0.55 0.52 0.44 0.40 0.00 0.43
Brent Webb N/A N/A N/A N/A 0.63 0.29 0.55 0.17 0.41

What it shows is that 66.67% of our ‘senior’ players are scoring less tries in this season so far than their average. Those whose average is in red are below their average this season, those in green are above. Interestingly, if we did it based on last seasons figures only 50% would be below. This would seem to support Hetherington’s notion that the players are not as good this season as last. But is it that clear cut? Do we really need stats to show us we are not scoring as much when the league table as good as tells us that anyway? The table below shows that we are actually scoring less points this season than at anytime in the last 7 years, and we are also conceding more.
win% Av For Av Agn Av Points Per Game
2012 52.94 26.76 24.82 1.06
2011 58.62 28.10 22.17 1.21
2010 62.96 26.85 20.78 1.30
2009 79.31 29.31 16.66 1.59
2008 77.78 31.96 15.30 1.56
2007 66.67 27.67 18.04 1.37
2006 67.86 31.04 19.39 1.36

If we compare the current campaign to that of the free scoring 2008 there is a difference of over 16% in terms of points scored per game. In 2008 our senior players scored a total of 3.29 tries per game and the same set of players have scored 2.98 so far this season, a difference of just 9%.
This suggests that yes, we are scoring less this season, but actually, it’s not just the senior players that are accountable. In fact, it is the non senior players that are more accountable because if we remove Kirke who is the only player to have been outside the matchday 17 more often than he has been in it the 11 senior players account for 65% of the matchday squad, but only 56% of the drop in tries per game. Therefore the other 35% of the matchday squad are accountable for 44% of the reduction in tries scored.
The net effect of all this is that whilst the senior players level of performance has dropped this season, they are performing better than the non senior players. So perhaps rather than suggesting the current squad has run its course Mr Hetherington would be better served looking at the level of players that have left the squad since 2008 and those he has replaced them with, because by my reckoning, they are of inferior quality.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3813No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2020Feb 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Clarkey?

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach14181No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2024Feb 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
14338_1615904391.jpg
[url=https://imgbb.com/:262vlrc2][img:262vlrc2]https://i.ibb.co/wzj2Z3c/rsz-1bulldogsbanner.png[/img:262vlrc2][/url:262vlrc2]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_14338.jpg



icon_lol.gif

If you read it in his voice it's almost spot on!

RankPostsTeam
International Star6668No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2023Jun 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
52697_1334270708.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_52697.jpg



What about the key performance indicators, Phil?

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member22289
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200322 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Aug 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
4615.jpg
:4615.jpg



And I thought I needed to get a life.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate the odd stat every now and again but like WMD's you wouldn't want them falling into the wrong hands. Does this mean they'll be no more 'can Leeds go undefeated' threads?

The answer to your opening question is NO (IMO) but I'm afraid that's only based on a gut feeling rather than how many tries Ryan Bailey may or may not have scored in any given season.

gee
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner6526No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200421 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2013Mar 2013LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
9770.jpg
:9770.jpg



Can you show your workings?

RankPostsTeam
International Star11412No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2021Jul 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



After reading through all of that my conclusion is..........i deserve a fecking medal for doing so.

RankPostsTeam
International Star11412No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2021Jul 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



Also a lack of tries doesn't simply come down to players alone, poor attacking structure and game plans made by the coach can also be at fault for this as you can't always relay on individual brilliance to get over the line you need good team play which should come from McDermott's coaching. He isn't coaching them to respect the art of building pressure (if he is then they're ignoring him badly) which would lead to more tries if we did.

For example, Ryan Hall, in 2009 he's at 1.07 compared to 2012's 0.87. Was he a better player in '09 than he is now? No, he's as good as ever but the guy struggles to get any decent ball as we are so poorly set up atm and under a different coach he could of possibly doubled the amount of tries he's already scored so far this year.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5526No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2019Mar 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Wow icon_eek.gif

IMHO (hope that satisfies the Southstander gestapo icon_rolleyes.gif )....no !

I still believe it's not so much lack of effort and desire from the players but lack of ideas, discipline and structure to their game. That to me suggests a lack of good coaching.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3224
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2018May 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
17505_1301920246.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17505.jpg



Jesus wept. After reading all that waste of expensive bandwidth, I feel like going outside and throwing myself in a puddle!

Have you been living in a cave for the past 6 months Fallon? (or as you might opine 0.35% of my alloted lifespan)

It's all been done to death .....including pointing the finger at the traditional villain of the piece. the Head Coach.

Are you by any chance related to Rhinoswinorlose?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach11658
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2018Aug 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
35138.jpg
Fat people are harder to kidnap.:35138.jpg



I like lists.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman1830No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2020Aug 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
1734.jpg
It's hard to sing with an 'oofer on yer back!:1734.jpg



What Mr Hetherington says and what he thinks are two different things. He had to say something but I'd take it all with a pinch of salt - wait and see! icon_wink.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach19234No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2016Feb 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
35376_1277564281.gif
[img:35s0tdes]http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/12/34/74/45/lr200913.gif[/img:35s0tdes]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_35376.gif



You've said that a couple of times now RF what does he actually think???

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach15864No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200420 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2024Oct 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
10145_1279728778.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10145.png



Quote: Fat Boy "I like lists.'"

What we need is some classic Damo. 50 things that are wrong with Leeds Rhinos

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member7285
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: rhinoms "You've said that a couple of times now RF what does he actually think???'"

McDermott given to the end of the season to win something or he will be gone along with a couple of others on contracts that extend past this year.
I think that is what RF is getting at hey Mr Francis icon_wink.gif

35 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
35 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


5.0380859375:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
7m
Film game
karetaker
5639
24m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
197
28m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
UllFC
4017
28m
Shopping list for 2025
weaver93
5576
Recent
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
homerjsimpso
14
Recent
2024
Butcher
5
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2593
Recent
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
Recent
Dons Squad 2025
Jemmo
13
Recent
Castleford sack Lingard
FIL
8
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Wigan v Wire in Vegas
karetaker
11
2m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40731
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63221
4m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
197
4m
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
4m
Fixtures
Willzay
13
5m
Castleford sack Lingard
FIL
8
5m
Pre Season - 2025
mwindass
183
6m
Planning for next season
J7P1
175
7m
War of the Roses
ratticusfinc
30
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2024
Butcher
5
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Butcher
5
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
ColD
2
TODAY
Catalan Away
jonh
5
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
rubber ducki
12
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
TODAY
England 5 - 0 Ireland
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To Newcastle
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
443
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
530
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1270
England's Women Demolish The W..
1093
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1332
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1128
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1390
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1927
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2145
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2383
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1957
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2194
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2658
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2090
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2162