Its been interesting to read the debate re Oledski, as it was a fellow Wiganer who asked a genuine question about him, as to whether he would prosper better with a move away i.e had he gone stale at Leeds.

there's no doubt he has the ability to be a top level prop (note i'm not saying he isnt with this comment), but he needs more around him at Leeds to allow him to develop into that player who is recognised week in week out. At Wigan we realised that changes to tackle height and the pending change re number of games, would mean we needed to change our approach to props particularly, and despite even Wigan fans joking about us signing a prop a week, its shown the club knew what they were doing

Signing Thompson, Dupree, Eseh and chan to run alongside Cooper, Havard, Byrne, Mago, Hill and Ellis (admittedly now at 13) has meant with suspension and injury, in the main we have been able to play 4 recognised props and maintain intensity during games. Yes, we've lost games during the season, but it looks like we have been trying to manage the intensity, with peaks for WCC, CC and now a GF run

Looking from outside in to the Leeds pack, Oledski is the only one who would get into the Wigan rotation, and he'd likely be fighting for a place on the bench at this moment in time. As we've seen Eseh and Chan were signed for the future, but they need to step up in this off season to start to fight for a 1st team spot. Cooper is being let go, so thats Hill's chance to make his real claim. He hasnt let us down, and as a young lad, is now looking ready to get more game time next season

i've just watched Fridays game back on TV and the 2 young lads (Edgell & Lumb) came out of it with plenty of credit, but were let down by far more senior / experienced players, and i'm looking forward to see how they both develop

We unfortunately had two successive coaches in Agar and Smith who didn't seem to value big props so we haven't prioritised recruitment there for years. We started this season with just four actual props, with question marks over 3 of them - Holroyd (fitness/ability to play a full season), Lisone (short minutes, fitness) and Sangare (just WTF). Even if they were all seen as good enough, we'd need at least another one or two to be comfortable.

The plan then was to use other forwards as 'middles' - Donaldson, Goudemand, Bentley - to fill in as required. As we lost Holroyd (just 6 games) we've had to use these guys a lot, but even if he'd played more games, the plan was to use fill-ins.

Add to the prop issue a backrow with workers but no size/punch and its clear to see why we're getting crushed up front far too often. Its possible for a smaller pack to compete every now and then, but not every week, and not against good teams with big forwards. We've seen that for years vs Sts with Walmsley and co terrorising us and now Wigan, Wire and others when they really want the win.

I cannot see this improving significantly without at least 2 and ideally 3 big forwards. One just won't be enough (and if they get injured we're back to square one). Maybe Gannon, Ruan, TNW and Littlewood can offset one of those, but they are very green and I wouldn't want to bet the season on it.

It's a fundamental of the game that you need power and size up front. I'm sure Smith was trying to be too clever by half with his recruitment and thought he could ignore that fundamental. Think the Wigan approach is spot on. They've been successful because they're rock solid up front which means they get good field position and they have decent halfbacks and two really quick players who can capitalise. It's not rocket science.

Think Leeds need at least three props and a decent sized hard running second rower. See what the rest of the side can do with a half decent platform. Think there's also still a place for Cam Smith. He can perform a Radley/Yeo type role at loose forward so a bit of ball handling, intelligent running and good defence.

Agree with all that, I think smith’s idea was a lightweight pack,extremely mobile and attempt to run big opposition packs off the park. The first half of the home league game against saints we achieved that and dominated saints. Second half we were well beaten and ultimately lost the game. Not certain if we ran out of steam or saints wised up to the situation.

I wouldn’t believe everything that set of clowns say.

Its actually scarier if its not true that we're spending quite a bit less than others. It means that a team that is lower-end mid table costs the same as the very top. Which means we've royally messed up our cap spend with some players earning way more than they would elsewhere. That makes it harder to shift contracted players as they'd likely face a pay cut, and gives us less room to manoeuvre.

I don't expect us to sign a Brodie Croft level player for next year in terms of interest, but forwards are generally less exciting signings anyway.