The problem is, as you said yourself, the players we have are not Brad Arthur style players. We don’t have a dominant pack.

No amouht of pre-season work is going to make a pack containing Goudemand, Bentley, O’Connor, Sangare etc a fearsome one. We need to smell the roses at Leeds: our players aren’t as good as we think they are or they think they are. 7th is about right this year; i.e there are 6 better teams than us in the comp. We need both better coaching and better players to coach, otherwise we will be round and round the washing machine of mediocrity interminably.

A club the size and wealth shouldn't need to be in a long term project 9 years after the demise of the core of the golden generation - how much patience and a level of understanding does that need.

It didn't happen at Wigan and it wont take Saints that long to rebuild - why has it taken so long and it will be potentially another 3 years!!

I agree im not sticking up for the club, quite the opposite

We will add to the squad though

I think patience is needed,sadly after 9 years of (often predictable) bad choices in recruitment of players and coaches the fans have little of that left.

BA if he stays has the qualities we need and I'm sure will want to fix the pack as soon as contract allows. However that still takes time for those on contract and we are stick with Goudemand, Sangare and questions over the value of Holroyd and Bentley + questions on Gannon and concussion issues.

I don't think the squad is as bad as it looks but the lack of go forward frustrates us and we start to panic and push the silly plays / try too hard.Then having no leaders means we domt settle or recover into hard work but go harder on miracle plays.

We need BA or a similar level coach. We need at least one prop and one back row of V high quality. Preferably two.
We also need to find a way to get some leadership / brains in.

Honestly, I think even with an amazing coach and above signings the best we can hope for is making the play offs.
Won't be until the 26" season that the new guy will have the cap freedom and contracts ending to have "his" team his way.

The problem is without knowing who the coach is going to be how do you attract the quality of player you need to move forward. Leeds isn't the draw it used to be - do we do what we have done for several years over pay for very average players?

When is the academy going to produce the quality of youngsters the like of Wigan and Saints have been producing for many years - in yesterday's game only 5 players came through the academy and only one of them Edgell has come through in the last 5 years that is an appalling reflection of the junior set up at Leeds

Yup, the problems with the academy has Bern well documented but apparently improving. Edgell and McCormack seem promising. TNW hasn't really had chance, similar for Ruan

I think we are at the point now where we can say how much of the poor results has been down to poor players, and how much to poor coaching. It’s looking like it’s more about poor players. They will continue to be better under Brad Arthur, and even better still with a pre-season under Arthur or a similarly better coach. But though this group of players could sneak into a play off position in 2025, if we want to start on the path of winning things we need quite a few changes in our roster. For me, that would focus on props.
Hopefully with Blease in place and a new coach we will start to make better recruitment decisions.

That is a fair point when Donaldson is making in to your first 17 something is clearly not working

A game we should have won, but lost for 3 reasons
Mistakes
Penalties
Fitness
We are a painfully unfit team. Out on their feet in the second half.
This is because they are playing a different game in defence in the first half, but they're not conditioned enough to keep it up.
I think this then leads to errors and giving away penalties.
That can be fixed in time, but still too many players simply not good enough for top 6.

Pack is miles off in terms of quality.
Sangare just hasn't worked out. Really disappointed with him.
Oledski and McDonnell would be the only ones I'd keep tbh.

And I really think it's time to move Newman on.
His pace has clearly gone and his defence is terrible.
The only thing he really offers now is trying to get a penalty every time he gets tackled.

I know we're all still slightly hopeful we can make the play offs, but tbh we're not a top 6 side.
We'll probably finish 8th looking at the remaining games.

When you say move Newman on?