It looks to me like both. We sign other teams’ reserve players or Champ players and expect our magical environment to make world beaters out of them. When has this actually worked?

I’m balled off with seeing our smallest players taking the brutal carries out of D and then making it to our own 40 if we’re lucky.

I’ve made my views on the error rate clear before and that is more a quality of player issue. But then RS and GH have signed those players.

We started the game with one prop (Mik). Then we don’t use our subs properly again ehen we are clearly struggling physically. Either play Johnson or pick another player.

We look clueless in attack and have all year. I noticed us try to play another set move on the left hand side in good ball and it fell apart within three passes as usual.

Some of the goal line D was embarrassing, where their players got the ball down (or nearly did) about three times with three or four Leeds players in the tackle.

I'll swap him for Pele and Okunbor. 2 for 1

I think Cam Smith is a pivotal player - when he's on form Leeds look way better, when he isn't we tend to lose.

Will be a brave call but I think Gannon might make a better 13, I've said for a while I think he could be in the big/mobile/skilful 13 mode like a Farrell or Sculthorpe (not expecting him to be as good as they were). We also have Cassell coming through who is quality. Smith will have some pressure for sure going forward.

Most of us are on the same page but our pack has been exposed this year. If we are serious about winning titles again, we need to put together the best pack in the league. This is what annoys me about Leeds, we waste money and effort on project players constantly, while our competitors out-sign us. Most of the players who've left us have descended into mediocrity; one or two like Dupree and Walters were losses as players. We are going to have to sign the best players if we want to be the best again, and we should have as much money as Wigan or Saints do to achieve that - it's the judgement that has been lacking as much as anything.

I agree Jim, i think Gannon has the potential to be a very good 13. He's got good ball handling skills and very athletic with good power.

Gannon had a terrific breakthrough year, however, has done nothing since because of injury and concussion issues. I hope he comes back and stars for us, however, I fear we are hanging too much hope on him.

He is risky for sure - as stated though Presley Cassell is also better than Smith at 13 in my view, and he'll be ready for first grade in the next 2 years I'd say. We have some very good back rowers coming through at present.