Frustrating thing for me us we have some really good players. Get a few decent set moves designed to get the likes of Newman and Miller and they'll take some stopping. This random off the cuff stuff is not working.

I'm not saying for one minute to go to dull 5 drives and a kick but mix the basics with the off the cuff

We can't do the basics because our forwards are nowhere near the level of physicality of Wigan or sts. Too many small forwards and our bigger forwards are flat track bullies. They collectively shrivel up when opponents get on top.

I worry about how conservative Smith seems to have got with selection as well. Mom on the wing screams fear to me, and has no doubt dented Roberts' confidence for zero benefit. As does dropping Ruan, who has more potential than any of our other back rowers.

Smith needs to show a bit more guts and flexibility IMO. Assuming we're a mile off winning anything this year, let's focus on the next generation. Could Sinfield have done worse than Frawley?

Which games this year have we lost that we expected to win, which games have we won when we expected to lose?

Results seem to be at the level I expected, performance this week was a poor one which the coach acknowledged, but the other things he said about the rules and the refereeing were correct too.

Imagine being GH sat in the stands wondering how the team you’ve assembled with considerable dollar could be this bad. Apart from the intercept, we didn’t look like scoring once.

My main gripe about smiths style is it’s either ridiculously high risk that either looks brilliant or ends in a knock on, or it’s one out with players with absolutely zero aggression.

I’m sick of watching Bentley, he’s absolutely garbage, and why does Frawley have to try and throw every pass like he’s trying to launch it into space. And don’t get me started about the drop off plays, passing the pall on the inside so our centres and back towers run laterally across the line making them easy to tackle.

Ironically we’ll probably play better in better weather, but the GF is always in conditions similar to last night. No we’re out of the CC I don’t see our route to silverware this year.

We're stuck with him unfortunately

some could see this last year. we are better but only because we have better players than last year.

Apart from maybe Martin, Bentley was Leeds’s best player again last night. I think some people just get on his back for no reason other than jumping on the bandwagon. Shame the rest of the pack didn’t share his enthusiasm or work rate.

The players are better in some cases (not all) but the style we try tom play is killing us and that’s on the coaching team. Prime Melbourne Storm would struggle to play the Wray Smith seems to want s to play, he’s just not improving us anything like fast enough to challenge. What little faith I had in him is now fully evaporating, I’d hoped with some better players that we would see a change in style and improvement, but I just don’t see it. He needs to be replaced when his contract is up at the end of the year.

Maybe we just disagree with your assessment of Bentley?

He got stuck in to his D again but I thought he played better last week than this. I still maintain that if you want that type of player in the pack, McDonnell is technically better and a little bigger too.

And again I’ll reiterate, it’s a shame the so called enforcer that is Oledzki doesn’t get stuck into them like Bentley. The lad’s in a no win situation with Leeds fans, and it’s become quite boring to say the least.

I do wonder how many people who slag him off on here constantly have actually ever played the game.

Each to their own though as you say

Can’t disagree with that