Academy level results are cyclical. They very much depend on where particular teams are in their development - for example this year Leeds have played a number of 16/17 year olds in the U19s, where some sides may have more 18/19 year olds. Next year Leeds are likely to have second year players as the core of the side (Smith, Oledzki, Whiteley, Walker, Sutcliffe, Nicholson) as some of the experienced third years move on. At that sort of age group, a year makes a huge difference.

Leeds lost the 19s game at home to Wigan by four points to a late try and the 16s game away from home by eight points, hardly indicative of a gap in quality between the two sides.

Although our academy side of the early 2000s (Mcguire Burrow Walker etc.) were good enough to win the accede my GF 3 years in a row

Luke Gale left for donny in 2007 and signed for London in 2009. The coach at London then was...

Look at our best starting 13 from last year
Hardaker Briscoe Hall Watkins Moon McGuire Sinfield Peacock Aiton Garbutt Ablett Ward Cuthbo

Thats is only 6 academy products and even worse only 2 academy products that have come through in the 5 years of Mac being coach

How can you argue that Mac has brought through youth properly looking at that?

Without bothering to check I can pretty much guarantee that is the lowest number of academy products in any of our first choice 13s in years we have won the GF

2007, we started the GF with 6 academy players. With the exception of Lee Smith they were all playing before Smith took over.

Also seem to recall Singleton getting picked to start the GF whilst Cuthbertson was on the bench.....surprising as Singleton has only ever been picked ahead of others due to injuries.

I said that players only get their chance through injury, Singleton has been playing for 3/4 years

take your point about 2007, I think that after 2005 we over reacted to our lack of experience (which cost arguably our best ever team the treble) by looking overseas rather than the youth system in 2006/7, though remember that McGuire Burrow etc were in their early 20s at that point

But when talking about development, last year was Singo's breakthrough year, surely Mac gets credit for that?

I would argue that 2014 should have been his breakthrough year as he was arguably our second best prop at the time but was being pushed aside fro those with more experience.
Also, except by bulking up and being less naive at the PTB (which would come through experience), how has he actually been improved?

Now you might say 'how do you define improve' but for me, the lack of work done with our younger players has become so apparent to me when looking at a player like Handley, who is a good player but has a clear flaw under the high ball that hasn't improved since his debut

We didn't lose the treble in 2005 because of a lack of experience, that team had won a GF and LLS in 2004 and the WCC early in the year.

The changes weren't a reaction to losing the treble. Calderwood, Mathers and Walker all decided to leave for greener grass they thought and we replaced with Donald, Webb and Toopi. We got Peacock in but that's an obvious signing to make when he became available and Danny Ward got himself booted out which left a gap in the props which was eventually filled by Leuluai, but not before the likes of Mark O'Neill and Jamie Thackray.

we lost trophies in 05 because smith floggedthd players every day with no days off and no player rotation. come play off time they were shot. that's why the conditioner walked. I was told that by andrew dunneman. he couldn't understand why he did what he did, given his rotation the year before

That was Smith exerting his power/control, players had to ask his permission if they could take their wives out for dinner!! That blew up in his face when Danny Ward went off the rails and he selected Senior in the cup final. 2006 was the players showing him who had control and that didn't improve until he was on his way in 2007.