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International Star | 33 | Rochdale Hornets |
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| Quote Uppo58="Uppo58"Honestly, how can a great team go from heroes to zeros ? Overnight metaphorically speaking.
I know 3 very good players have retired, but i think too much is being read into that. At the end of the Grand Final you had arguably 16 truly outstanding players.(not including young Walters).
McGuire had just won the Harry Sunderland trophy as much for his organisation and leadership as his 2 tries. Adan Cuthbertson had been the stand out prop all season for his amazing ball handling as well as his grunt. I would have been equally if not more concerned if it had been Moon, Watkins and Man of Steel Hardaker who were leaving the club, or Briscoe, Cuthbertson, McGuire.
In comparison, since that same Grand Final, Wigan have also lost Matty Bowen, Joe Burgess, Larne Patrick, additionally Mcilorum has hardly kicked a ball, neither has Bowens replacement Sam Tomkins, and their own talisman, injury plagued O'loughlin is out of the side as much as he's in it these days. Those key 6 players are arguably as influential as the loss of the Leeds golden 3. But Wigan are still doing it, how's that then ???
Leeds should have had enough class all over the park to cover for the 3 losses. The choppy waters of this transition period should have seen the vast winning experience of JJB, Ablett, McGuire, and Burrows guide the team through this period. Internationals Hall, Watkins, Ferres and Briscoe should have fitted easily into "bigger boots" The class of Moon should have reached a new level, Cuthbertson and Delaney had the chance to become leaders.
The truth is no-one has delivered, players or coaching staff. The ready made excuse was always there and quite a cosy place to hide behind. and indeed they have.
Many teams this season could argue they have been hit with even greater losses of personnel than Leeds, yet the likes of Wakefield and Huddersfield, Wigan et al have dealt with it, they've not had a ready made excuse, apart from plain bad luck, and yet all these sides and more have shown Leeds the way to play in adversity.
Some bad decisions have to be owned up to. The Aichurch and Garbutt projects are proving to be just that, projects. Kangaroo and Origin veteran Galloway is either proving to all he is just a veteran or he has come for his pay check. His best days look well behind him at the mo.
Maybe Hetherington should be asking himself why on earth he didn't stagger the leaving of Peacock and Sinfield. Kev was still playing well in 2015 and could have easily gone round again for the good of the club, if he had been cajoled and sweet talked for the good of the club he loves.
But all that is History now. It is simply time for this gifted squad to man up, grow a pair, stop blaming bad weather and retirements of seasoned players AND GET ON WITH IT !!! The fans are owed that much.'"
This is pretty much one hundred percent how I feel. I think the buck stops with McDermott and he needs to step down. I manage a large team at work and if they fail to perform I'm the one who is ultimately responsible. I love what he has done( with some BIG help. ) to our club but I think we need to change. I'm not a glory seeker, I've seen lean times but when performance, desire and general appetite has gone we have to change.
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International Chairman | 14970 | No Team Selected |
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| Lack of desire, lack of effort? What games are you people watching? There are monumental efforts going on right across our team. Maybe not directed in the right way I'll grant but lack of effort is just a child-like reaction to the current situation.
The players are knackered, that's why they're missing tackles or not pushing up or not making it back in defence.
Why are they knackered? They had a hugely disrupted pre-season and half of them are injured.
No doubt someone will come along and say "that's no reason for such poor performances". Well, yes it sodding well is. And they're much more plausible reasons for what we're seeing than either the players don't care anymore, they're rubbish or the coach is rubbish. Which, again, are child-like responses and not thought out to any degree.
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Player Coach | 9730 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote nantwichexile="nantwichexile"I too agree with all ...including your point regards Garbutt. Personally I can't understand the criticism he is getting from some quarters. Falloon and Galloway..yes, but Garbutt has earned his stripes IMO.
As for Achurch...WTF??? We all thought Kirke was stealing a wage....this guy has unquestioningly usurped his fellow gym owner in that respect. They must both have some tasty incriminating photos
'"
Garbutt started the season poor. He was way below the standard he set last year. (he was also in very good company!)
But improved dramatically when Cuthbo was injured. He's been the only ball hungry prop who has looked to do the hard yards. Singleton only seems to want to touch the ball if we're near the opponents try line.
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International Chairman | 17230 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Stevosfalseteeth="Stevosfalseteeth"Rubbish!! Carnegie didn't get sorted by January. They train at West Park, but that was only sorted recently. They don't even have a regular gym.
We are missing Briscoe, Moon, Hall, McGuire, Ablett and Ward. Plus Cuthbertson is just on his way back. I make that 7. Then add Delaney and Falloon to that list.
We are bottom of the league for a couple of reasons. Injuries and no leadership.'"
Jesus, they are so hit and miss his posts.
Would Hall or Briscoe have give us an improvement on Handley? no they wouldn't. Infact Hall was a massive liability before his injury.
Would Moon have been an improvement on Keinhorst last few games? Not he wouldn't.
Ablett has played enough games this year, and the results or performance have not changed.
We are certainly missing McGuire and Ward, who would have been an improvement on there replacements, but that is it. And not sure either would have made diddly squat difference to most of the majority of the losses.
No leadership is a serious issue, pointed out by some before the season, and again is not relevant to injuries though, as we don't have it.
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| Quote Gotcha="Gotcha"Would Moon have been an improvement on Keinhorst last few games? Not he wouldn't.'"
He'd have been an improvement on Watkins though, on current form.
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International Chairman | 17230 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Loyal Leeds Fan="Loyal Leeds Fan"He'd have been an improvement on Watkins though, on current form.'"
Don't dissagree. But lets be honest about it, he wouldn't have replaced him would he?
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Player Coach | 11412 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Gotcha="Gotcha"Don't dissagree. But lets be honest about it, he wouldn't have replaced him would he?'"
Probably not but we could then put Keinhorst to 2nd row instead of Achurch.
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Club Captain | 2356 | Rochdale Hornets |
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| IF we select on form alone then Achurch Watkins & Hall would be playing for Fev.
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| Quote Gotcha="Gotcha"Jesus, they are so hit and miss his posts.
Would Hall or Briscoe have give us an improvement on Handley? no they wouldn't. Infact Hall was a massive liability before his injury.
Would Moon have been an improvement on Keinhorst last few games? Not he wouldn't.
Ablett has played enough games this year, and the results or performance have not changed..'"
You're going on the basis that their poor form would've definitely continued, which it MIGHT have done but by no means a guarantee. Burrow was dire earlier in the year but has put in some good showings recently. Garbutt is improving from his early form and despite the criticism I think Galloway has improved. Very possible some of our absentees would've picked up their form if they weren't injured.
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International Chairman | 18097 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Him="Him"Lack of desire, lack of effort? What games are you people watching? There are monumental efforts going on right across our team. Maybe not directed in the right way I'll grant but lack of effort is just a child-like reaction to the current situation.
The players are knackered, that's why they're missing tackles or not pushing up or not making it back in defence.
Why are they knackered? They had a hugely disrupted pre-season and half of them are injured.
No doubt someone will come along and say "that's no reason for such poor performances". Well, yes it sodding well is. And they're much more plausible reasons for what we're seeing than either the players don't care anymore, they're rubbish or the coach is rubbish. Which, again, are child-like responses and not thought out to any degree.'"
There is no criticism of the effort for the most part - there are players who appear to not giving 100% or not performing as they should - Achurch, Watkins, Galloway are these really showing a hunger/desire/will to win?
Why are the players knackered they have played less than half a season - a disrupted pre-season yes but by now they should be hitting their straps in terms of match fitness.
How many players on Friday were playing injured - Hardaker irresponsible to play him imo, they dropped Singleton to play Cuthbertson so you can only assume he was fit.
On McDermott - I don't see a logical game plan - it may be boring but dumb the plan down to trying to gain territory - all this off the cuff stuff is OK when you have all guns firing. The less said about the defensive structures and the lack of desire to defend the line the better.
Leadership is a huge issue - on Friday Cuthbertson and Ferris as experienced players let their team mates down and need a word in their ear during the game - there is trying and there is headless plays both these players came up with far too many of the latter. Leeds are compounding their other issues with suicidal plays on the field.
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International Chairman | 18097 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ThePrinter="ThePrinter"You're going on the basis that their poor form would've definitely continued, which it MIGHT have done but by no means a guarantee. Burrow was dire earlier in the year but has put in some good showings recently. Garbutt is improving from his early form and despite the criticism I think Galloway has improved. Very possible some of our absentees would've picked up their form if they weren't injured.'"
That is a difficult conundrum - Handley imo has been excellent and doesn't deserve to lose his place until he shows a significant deterioration in form.
It could be that some players just aren't as good as they looked in a winning side with Sinfield and Peacock at its heart?
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