From memory, the new recruits for Smith's first season in 2004 were Marcus Bai, Ali Lauitiiti and Chris McKenna.

Think Carl Ablett and Nick Scruton might have made their first team debuts that year as well?

Gareth Ellis then came in 2005, so it's a bit of both really

On the Hull KR game keeping the ball alive has nothing to do with abject defending!! The point about the post was it was in response to a thread suggesting there was little interest in the game - woosh!!

I have consistently said the games after the split will determine how Leeds finish. Leeds have got 4 home games left and 4 away games if you count Magic 2 of which are against Wigan - team even you concede are good at home. This idea that Leeds have a host of home games is a fallacy. I still don't see Leeds finishing top after the split - the key players are too old to play intense rugby week in week out for seven straight weeks especially if the reach the CC final - I could be wrong but so could you.

Unlike you I don't write off teams like Saints, Wigan, Warrington these guys will have a say come the end of the season - I still expect Saints to finish top at the end of the regular rounds. I don't think Leeds can play much better than they have whilst I think the other teams have some improvement in them and they have younger deeper squads. Time will tell.

The team were never the same after Magic, Wigan dinted their confidence and it never returned - the Catalan play off game should have been a stroll but it wasn't the team didn't believe. In 2005 Leeds were cruising - the dominant side until the Catalan away game - something happened there between the team and Smith and things were never the same until he announced his departure for the England job in 2007. You dismiss that notion that is your choice but just as in games a shift in momentum can be difficult to redress. That is why tomorrow's game is so interesting - its impact on the rest of the season could be nothing could be significant. Professional sport is as much about what goes on inside your head as it is about your physical prowess do Leeds "really" believe they can win the GF?

My point was that you couldn't wait (patience again) to see how the 2nd 40 turned out and came rushing on here to tell us how Leeds hadn't turned up. Granted some of those defensive efforts should've been better for HKR's tries but the problem lay with letting start sets in our half and around the halfway mark from giving the ball away. It wasn't like they were going 80/90m down field against us to score and we know HKR have some attacking quality and make defences look bad.



Only since Leeds started topping the table by a nice gap. At the start of the season you thought we'd be a lot further down and realistically out of reach of the top 4 by the time the split happened lingering around 7th place.



They do, or are you disregarding those home games against lower teams we still have to play? Because they'll still count to the table if we win them. You don't just get 2 points for beating other top 4 teams you know. We have 4 away games against top 8 teams to come (if we count Wigan at Magic as away). If we're top by the split then our away games are against 4th place, 7th place and 8th place. Not as daunting as it sounds now.



Our key players are different this year. Yes sure Sinfield and Peacock still play a big part but look at our best performers this year like Aiton, Cuthbertson, Ward, Watkins. Hardaker is starting to find form and Hall has made a good return to the side from injury and soon we can add Briscoe who looked very impressive before injury. Reality is the team (as a whole) isn't as old as people make out, they're still stuck about 18-24 months back.



Ermmmm, I've never written those teams off for winning things. Stated all along that whoever makes the top 4 it will be a coin toss to see who wins the GF as any of those teams can hit hot form for those two weeks and beat the others.



Could well be them. IF both ourselves and Saints win over this weekend I can see it being a two horse race for top spot.



Really? You don't think we can play much better than what we have? Most seem to agree we haven't really put in any real 80 mins performances, hell sometimes not even many full 40 mins performances yet we're still beating teams and the defence has plenty of improvement in them. For the likes of Wigan and Warrington it's not so much about improvement, they've had games when they've shown what they can do. It's consistancy for those two as they seem to struggle to perform away from home in Wigan's case or string together several weeks in Warrington's case.



I think questioning whether these guys have doubts about if they can win the GF is far fetched. Will they play good enough come playoffs is yet to be seen but will any potential failure be because they don't believe they can really win it? Pffttt, we aren't Huddersfield.

Again I agree about how important the mental side of the game is. I just don't get how you can then ignore the players focus. For a confidence shot team as you think they were, they produced two very well organised and confident performances in the midst of that period to win the cup. The other week the win over Hudds again showed what the difference can be when the focus is on. There was no confidence issues in that game, no fretting about only 1 point from our last 6, no panic over letting a big lead slip against Hudds just a few weeks before.

Let us have a go at answering your points:

1. I have always said the games after the split will determine where Leeds finish. If the last few games are anything to go by they are going to struggle - nothing suggests otherwise.

2. Hull KR showed their attacking prowess against Wigan - get real don't defend the indefensible.

3. You confident Leeds will finish top - your theory about 4th 7th and 8th - could go straight out of the window - what happens if they finish 2nd?

4. You seriously think Leeds didn't focus tonight it wasn't a big enough game? They gave it their best shot but their best shot wasn't sufficient once again? This is a team that conceded 50 points last week - must be the CC in 4 weeks?

5. The team team is a year older: Sinfield, Burrow, Peacock, McGuire, Ablett, Moon, JJB are all a year old that is the spine of the team - the team is older and the squad is thinner. If Hardaker has done his ankle ligaments the depth of the squad in the backs will really be exposed.

Leeds haven't got near the GF for two years you think they really believe if Saints, Wigan or Warrington turn up with all guns blazing this Leeds side genuinely believe they can beat them? Warrington know they can beat Leeds so do Wigan.

This year's side has been better to watch by far. But like last year, we have a fundamental inability to outperform our opponents at the basics. And there are many occasions in every season when it's imperative to do so.

This may not prevent us winning the odd trophy but we'll certainly not dominate the game until it's addressed.

So, we come to conclusion that Smith was a factor in the success of the 2004 season but the extent to which he contributed is in question? I can live with that.