Nathan Brown after their close fought contest with Warrington...

:ud3dlgi1]

I think he has discovered the secret to rugby league, maybe it is 'Play for 80 minutes'... ""I told the players at half-time what we need to do to beat Wigan, Warrington or Leeds in a big game but I won't say what it is publicly. '''"

Your immediate change for me should be at fullback. A player with wonderful talent, who could create so much in his natural role, but who is lumped at fullback and can't defend for toffee.

Second in the league and knocked out of the cup by the only team above them in the league, I'm not saying every things perfect at Saints but it could be a lot worse.

4 months is a long time in RL, I still think saint, wire & hudds will have a big say in who wins it.

I get what you are saying, when looking at it from the outside...a lot of clubs/fans would love to be second in the SL table etc...

BUT...if I were a Saints fan, I'd be a bit worried when it comes to recent history to be honest. When was the last time they won a big game when something was really on the line?

Suppose you could say the play-off semi against Wigan in 2011... but as we thankfully know, they didn't finish the job at Old Trafford.

They have lost a hell of a lot of big games since they last won the SL title...funny how things turn out. Before we dismantled them at Old Trafford in '07, they were known as the club who always go the job done when it really mattered.

Time will tell, but I'm not sure that their current crop of players has what it takes to get that gigantic monkey off their backs - not this year anyway.

Depends how you define it. Last time they won a final was 2008. Semi as you say was 2011. I wouldn't generally put semi's into that category because loads of teams have won semi's but you wouldn't put them in that big game team category.

Even when they were winning those CC's 06-08 they were playing sh*t teams that bent over in the final.

You'd probably have to go all the way back to the 2004 CC final, or the 2006 Grand final for the last time they beat a decent team in a final.

No one ever placed much significance on the 2007 grand final or the manner of the victory but it appears to have been a turning point in the immediate fortunes of leeds and saints. It seemed to give Leeds real belief they could go on and really dominate the grand finals, whereas for saints it seems to have been a psychological blow and their record since then is damning. You can look back at the results and think leeds were easily superior, but in all those grand finals post 07 pretty much the only difference between leeds and saints was belief. Leeds never panicked. Saints floundered everytime.

I agree with much of this but I think it was the 2008 Grand Final that really did it for Saints. In both 2007 and 2008 Saints went in as favourites. Their record in big finals up till then had been pretty good, so they could write off one as "just not our year" in the same way Leeds probably felt about 2005 against Bradford.

But in 2008 Saints were going for the double and they smashed Leeds in the playoffs. I remember the talk then of how far second best Leeds were going in to the business end of the season, and Leeds then turned it round in the final. That hurt Saints and they have never been the same again. By 2009 it was already a case of 'Saints haunted by Grand Final defeats' by the time they went up against Leeds.