Hi tvoc - where I mention Fa'afili is that someone of that experience will feature massively in your pre-season plans, so when, as you rightly say, they never even get to play for you, that has a big impact on your team and your season. I don't ever believe in 'no excuses' (though I do think excuses only get you so far), and at a Club like London which struggles to be self-sustaining due to lack of interest in the area, financial backing is massively important to the formation of a decent team.

I think that the success over the last 8 years has shown the desire of the management to build and maintain a competitive, winning team, so when I say I'm not concerned, this is because I believe they will get it right in time for us to be better next year (at the latest).

I beg your pardon saying we lost against Wigan at home last year, of course we drew, but this only assists my point further. I agree that McGuire's try may not have determined the outcome of the away game, but I think you appreciate what I'm saying, which is that the performances were a lot better than the stats you selected show. If we hadn't won the League last year I would probably give more credit to the 6/43 games that you are quoting, but I still don't think you are fair to use these six games only. You also say we avoided a Wigan in the play-offs last year, but are using Warrington, whom we played and beat, as one of the three teams we need to be using as a benchmark. We also beat your other benchmark team, St Helens, in the Final. You're also discussing the Maguire era, with one of those years being played under McClennan not McDermott, which points the finger at the players more than Mac.

Like I say, I think the last 8 years has shown the desire of the Club to win, so I don't worry about inaction. I also have to ask how you KNOW that the players don't understand and follow McDermott.

Ferdy - I don't think I suggest at any point that we should wait until a player is 20 to play him regularly (I certainly don't disagree with Stevie Ward getting a few games!), sorry if I've given that impression. If you read through my earlier posts my focus has been on being mentally and physically ready, and like you I think this varies from player to player.

To be honest its nice to have a positive poster on here. I'm kind of split on the subject though, i think while McDermott needs to be questioned for the performance (opposite to what the OP thinks) i agree with him that the criticism shouldn't go into abuse territory. Healthy and non-too-personal criticism is ok, going onto booing during games, name calling and disrespectful comments i think is unnecessary.

I believe Swiftcorn got a bit of a ban following an argument on the VT with an Aussie about Aussie Rules Football and claiming he knew Australia better than a guy who lives there. Don't know if it applies to here though but his absence is greatly appreciated.

Quote: Gotcha "Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.'" It's not really a case of getting sucked in, as others have commented it's remained a civil discussion. I've always been notoriously poor at identifying the men behind the 'characters' but agree it's likely to be one of the regulars. Either way it's provided an outlet for some frustration. Will it change anyone's view - I doubt it. rhinowinorlose probably still thinks Henry Paul wasn't replaced at the Harlequins and that he was always a leading role model off the field : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 038590.stm I'm guessing the Quins were just grateful he wasn't the chauffeur driver behind the wheel of that Mercedes S280.

Quote: Gotcha "Come on folks. This is another AP/Keith alias. Don't get sucked in.'" It's not really a case of getting sucked in, as others have commented it's remained a civil discussion. I've always been notoriously poor at identifying the men behind the 'characters' but agree it's likely to be one of the regulars. Either way it's provided an outlet for some frustration. Will it change anyone's view - I doubt it. rhinowinorlose probably still thinks Henry Paul wasn't replaced at the Harlequins and that he was always a leading role model off the field : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 038590.stm I'm guessing the Quins were just grateful he wasn't the chauffeur driver behind the wheel of that Mercedes S280.

Agreed. It's a discussion forum, this is a discussion. Does seem to wind a few people up though - not sure why.

I think in short they players have to take the criticism for the way they play and they shouldn't be exempt from criticism but equally the manager has to take some blame for the standard of play and tactics used in the game.