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FORUMS > Castleford Tigers > TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION.
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oh dear oh dear! 2 leagues of ten sounds the best option t me, bring back p&r - sorted.

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Quote: Lord Bruce Burton "Stay off the internet , you're dangerous
Made me do a breakfast chuckle, nearly spilt me coffee!

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Normanton United????????????

Being from normanton, I must have a cigarette burn in my map of the town...

But I agree in principle yeah:

Cas sell Wheldon Road
Wakefield scrap Newmarket
Featehrstone cancel their stadium developnments

.....and play on "field of dreams" in Normy!

or maybe we could merge and have 39 players on the field at once, the RFL may allow it.

Finally this topic is closed lol

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Cas are evidently punching above their weight and I would rather see them play NL than us merge.

Gte rid of our BOD (somehow) and start afresh, and I will be a supported with a new lease of love

Totally no offence to wakefield on this. We have our own clubs, as I'm sure 90+% of either sides will agree.

I'm surprised nobody has hit another angle on this and thought of Featherstone mergin solely with someone? Dunno their thoughts... probably same as ours.

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Quote: captaincaveman "Or maybe cas could merge with say Gateshead, call the new club castleford, and play in castleford.

Or merge with Sheffield , call the new club castleford and play in castleford

Mergers are definitely the way forward'"


Hi Captain Caveman, your valid point is certainly not lost on me, and no-one would ever convince me that mergers of clubs that are some 140miles apart is ever going to be a real merger, your absolutely right. If there's an ulterior motive and / or its not agreed by the clubs involved then it shouldn't happen. In our case it did happen and Hull FC were the benefactors. It should never happen again in such a way in my opinion.

However in your case the distance we are talking about is just 4 miles to a mid point ground, not 140miles. OK Normanton Uniteds ground may not be right, but don't get hooked on it as the actual location, it just has to be somewhere that is fairly placed for all 3. I'm just seeing Nomanton FC ground/pitch as land that is already used for football, cricket, and so why not be the Stadium home for the area ??. Don't see it as a patch of land.......have the vision to see it as your stadium.
The KC stadium was built on parkland with its own covenant and also incorporating a Rugby Union and Cricket pitch. The Council found a way to overcome the barriers to make it happen If the place I propose is a no-goer then propose something better in Normanton thats even better placed.
Do not under estimate what such a stadium could do for your area in general, the KC has been brilliant for East Yorkshire as a whole, not just Hull the City.

Regarding "merger power " Unlike Hull/Gateshead, with TrinTigersFev even the youngest team was founded 84 years ago, no one team is a newcomer. All 3 have pretty equal League tradition and trophy winning success.

Wakefield Trinity founded 1873 Ground Capacity 11,000 ish Championships 2 Challenge Cups 5
Castleford Tigers founded 1926 Ground Capacity 12,000 ish Challenge Cups 4
Featherstone Rov founded 1902 Ground Capacity 6,750 Championships 1 Challenge Cup 3
Although Wakefield have slightly more trophy wins they are also the side with the longest wait for a trophy. With no wins in the 70s or 80s unlike their near neighbours.
So overall one could say you could fit a fag paper between the 3 of them.
My point being of course that generally speaking none of the 3 are the leading side who should dominate a merger.

If you can become one you will be so much more than the sum of the 3. Its about a mindset change to do what is needed to deliver a team from your area that can sit at Rugby Leagues top table, command large attendances, hold onto its best players, AND win trophies. OR you can be proud, with great traditions and history but no SL team representing the area. Why think small ? why not come together and think big ??

Some on here have said that they would go to Headingley to watch SL Rugby, if the Calder region clubs lost license, went bust, went lower league etc. But why should Cas fans or any of you fans travel over 15 miles to Headingley when you could travel less than 4 miles to your own new ground ?
With a joint commitment from the 3 of you to a new stadium RedHall would have to do a major rethink on your Re Licence. Because together you are stronger politically also.

Wakefield were prepared to build a ground 3 miles from Wakefield Centre, so surely one a similar distance from all 3 towns and allowing you all to watch your own bigger better super league team would be immeasurably better than braving the 15 miles of Leeds traffic would it not ? The newmarket Stadium was to have a capacity of 12,000. In my opinion that would be redundant straight away for you 3 together. I think it would take an 18,000 cap. new stadium to house a successful team from your area and all the Fev Cas and Trin fans.

You need to have a vision, be unselfish and be brave. If Super League is to be with us for our next generations of fans I would rather it be here with a team from your rich RL area. Not without.

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Quote: Uppo58 "Hi Captain Caveman, your valid point is certainly not lost on me, and no-one would ever convince me that mergers of clubs that are some 140miles apart is ever going to be a real merger, your absolutely right. If there's an ulterior motive and / or its not agreed by the clubs involved then it shouldn't happen. In our case it did happen and Hull FC were the benefactors. It should never happen again in such a way in my opinion.

However in your case the distance we are talking about is just 4 miles to a mid point ground, not 140miles. OK Normanton Uniteds ground may not be right, but don't get hooked on it as the actual location, it just has to be somewhere that is fairly placed for all 3. I'm just seeing Nomanton FC ground/pitch as land that is already used for football, cricket, and so why not be the Stadium home for the area ??. Don't see it as a patch of land.......have the vision to see it as your stadium.
The KC stadium was built on parkland with its own covenant and also incorporating a Rugby Union and Cricket pitch. The Council found a way to overcome the barriers to make it happen If the place I propose is a no-goer then propose something better in Normanton thats even better placed.
Do not under estimate what such a stadium could do for your area in general, the KC has been brilliant for East Yorkshire as a whole, not just Hull the City.


Your merger was only done to get you into super league by the back door the same as Huddersfield. On the subject of us merging with Wakefield and Featherstone i would never watch rugby again and i have been a Cas supporter for 50 years. I would however agree to a groundshare but the problem is that unlike the rest of you with new grounds we would have to finance it ourselves, we have no football clubs or council funds to pay for it, so can you tell me where the money will come from. If Pearson leaves FC for Leeds United it will be interesting to see what happens to you.

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I have never heard such garbage.

I actually play cricket on the land he is suggesting and.... just..... no.

I cannot even begin to start listing the issues with what has just been said

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From the outside looking in, I have to say that a merger of Cas, Wakey and Fev would produce a single strong team from an area that has produced some top RL players over the years.

However, I understand the want to hold onto individual identities but in the harsh light of the modern era, when so many clubs walk a knife-edge between safety and oblivion, perhaps it is better to have a merged club than no club at all?

And a merger doesn't have to mean the end of the traditional clubs either. In fact, maintaining those clubs as well as their academy systems at Championship level would be of great benefit to the game.

There is also the financial side of things to consider, a new single purpose built stadium for the new team is cheaper and quicker than trying to push through individual plans. Cheaper to run in the long term too.

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Quote: roofaldo2 "From the outside looking in, I have to say that a merger of Cas, Wakey and Fev would produce a single strong team from an area that has produced some top RL players over the years.

However, I understand the want to hold onto individual identities but in the harsh light of the modern era, when so many clubs walk a knife-edge between safety and oblivion, perhaps it is better to have a merged club than no club at all?

And a merger doesn't have to mean the end of the traditional clubs either. In fact, maintaining those clubs as well as their academy systems at Championship level would be of great benefit to the game.

There is also the financial side of things to consider, a new single purpose built stadium for the new team is cheaper and quicker than trying to push through individual plans. Cheaper to run in the long term too.'"


This coming from a Bradford fan jeez the stink of hypocrisy and conceit is almost unbearable.

Well then lets merge Leeds/Bradford, Hull/Hull KR, Wigan/Leigh and Widnes/Warrington for all the same reasons and of course looking from the outside.

I'm sick to death of pompous wally's like you demanding we do something that no other clubs are willing to do despite it being exactly the same - now do one.

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Quote: tigerman49 "

Hello Tigerman, your right re the merger reasons, and I've already said just that, so we are in agreement on that.

We are also in agreement re. any main funds provider leaving any club. Yes of course this would have an effect on the running of any club. That is quite clear, but not relevant to this debate unless those providing monies to any of your 3 teams are thinking of leaving. I hope not.

Re. your proposal of ground share - It simply doesnt solve your key problems Tigerman.
Which are ;
1)Critical mass fan base
2)Related profitability
3)Player retention
4)Future SL Licensing
5)Continued low resources funding 3 full club structures
6)Inability to compete with rest of SL for top tier players.
7)Ongoing team quality
icon_cool.gif3 teams and v close neighbours bringing into small geographic area a total of around 75 SL capable quad players.
9)3 teams diluting the cream of all the local youth talent
10) Championship destiny.
11) All above would mean lower confidence in the venture effecting any potential investment from Council/Lottery/Euro econ Devel/Business etc.

this list could go on.....

1 merged team from the region would change every one of the above points.


Its a shame you would not watch Rugby again with merged teams, it would be the games loss and yours. Though I'm sure many others would watch, and once the region had its new 1 Team in new modern stadium its amazing the inertia that can deliver.
Certainly if such change cannot be accepted, then ultimately you would get your choice of not watching Super League again in your own backyard.
"I can't have my clapped out mini so I'll refuse to drive the new VW because its not my exact colour and its a got a different name, I'm just not sure about it. Nah, I'd rather have my bike than go there."

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Quote: vastman "This coming from a Bradford fan jeez the stink of hypocrisy and conceit is almost unbearable.

Well then lets merge Leeds/Bradford, Hull/Hull KR, Wigan/Leigh and Widnes/Warrington for all the same reasons and of course looking from the outside.

I'm sick to death of pompous wally's like you demanding we do something that no other clubs are willing to do despite it being exactly the same - now do one.'"


Hi Vastman, If ever Leeds/Hull/Wigan/Warrington were in the same position as Wakey/Cas/Fev AND also had clone town teams within 3 or 4 miles of them then I think you would have a point. The fact is they are not. And though Bradford have had a lucky escape, with good managemnt they can easily survive and be profitable with what they have going for them. They were a leading force in SL a short time ago and can be there again. So can you too if you are brave and have the vision to maximise all the potential of your area.

A better example of your "argument" may be in Cumbria at some future time. However they are further away from the debate at present not being in or even in the vicinity of SL like you 3 are. But if they did become 1 team in the futture well of course they could well become a force too. With a new stadium catalyst I could well see a Cumbrian team being forced through to SL a la Widnes.
But alone, like youselves they will struggle to sustain a competitive SL team . Of course Barrow is some 45 miles from the other 2 so a 3 way merger is just not that practical up there.
I can see no hypocracy whatsoever coming rom the Bradford fan. Only hard logic from the outside looking in, on what is an emotive issue on the inside. Good judgement and survival should not be clouded by emotion.

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Quote: DAVE@CAS1990 "I have never heard such garbage.

I actually play cricket on the land he is suggesting and.... just..... no.

I cannot even begin to start listing the issues with what has just been said'"


Hi Dave, the thing really is not to see it as it is today, try to imagine what it can be.
It does not have to be at the specific place I mentioned, I wouldn't get too hung up with that. It could be on your cricket pitch of course but it also could be anywhere in this vicinity that has the potential.

Dont look for the barriers, look for the ways to make it happen and importantly how it can rejunenate the area, bring in further investment, and deliver all that is needed to provide 1 of the real hotbed areas of RL in the country back to the forefront of the game where it should be.

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Everyone seems to have suggestions on mergers but no answers to the problems

If the 3 clubs of WMDC merge, assuming (which is a massive assumption) we get over the hurdle of the name and location to play, we’ll find equally greater hurdles lie ahead.

How many fans do you think will attend? My guess is no more than 5/6k regular.
Will all debt be merged as well as assets (I’m pretty sure assets will be zero)? Debt still needs to be serviced, unless all 3 clubs go into joint admin, get a pre-pack and start a fresh.
Will we have a rich owner wiling to spunk his money on a team and support a probable loss making club? No sign of knight in shining armour wiling to step forward. That means running to a limited budget, not spending up to the full cap.

The way I see it is that you’ll have a club that’s no stronger than what Cas or Wakey are at the moment. The best the club will bring to the competition would be the youth production line for the big boys.

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Quote: Uppo58 "Hi Dave, the thing really is not to see it as it is today, try to imagine what it can be.
It does not have to be at the specific place I mentioned, I wouldn't get too hung up with that. It could be on your cricket pitch of course but it also could be anywhere in this vicinity that has the potential.

Dont look for the barriers, look for the ways to make it happen and importantly how it can rejunenate the area, bring in further investment, and deliver all that is needed to provide 1 of the real hotbed areas of RL in the country back to the forefront of the game where it should be.'"


who's paying for this then

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Quote: Uppo58 "Hi Vastman, If ever Leeds/Hull/Wigan/Warrington were in the same position as Wakey/Cas/Fev AND also had clone town teams within 3 or 4 miles of them then I think you would have a point. The fact is they are not. And though Bradford have had a lucky escape, with good managemnt they can easily survive and be profitable with what they have going for them. They were a leading force in SL a short time ago and can be there again. So can you too if you are brave and have the vision to maximise all the potential of your area.

A better example of your "argument" may be in Cumbria at some future time. However they are further away from the debate at present not being in or even in the vicinity of SL like you 3 are. But if they did become 1 team in the futture well of course they could well become a force too. With a new stadium catalyst I could well see a Cumbrian team being forced through to SL a la Widnes.
But alone, like youselves they will struggle to sustain a competitive SL team . Of course Barrow is some 45 miles from the other 2 so a 3 way merger is just not that practical up there.
I can see no hypocracy whatsoever coming rom the Bradford fan. Only hard logic from the outside looking in, on what is an emotive issue on the inside. Good judgement and survival should not be clouded by emotion.'"


Hi,

Don't wish to be rude but that is b*llocks.

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