All fair points, but is that last one strictly true? My recollection is that Castleford and Featherstone refused the merger, whereas Wakefield were willing; did they refuse it because of a supporter movement, or for some other reason(s)?

I'm not sure how I feel about the merger idea myself to be honest - if I wasn't intimately involved in the situation, I'd probably say yes, it's the only sensible thing to do. Because I am however, I can't see how I'd support the team. It's a head says yes, heart says no kind of scenario.

Having said that, given 10 years or so for all the bitterness to dissipate, would a merger create a WMD super-club that could dominate the sport? Given that the rhubard triangle is a fertile production ground for RL players and that there is massive latent support for the game all over the district, I'd say yes - I imagine that a few SL titles and a challenge cup or two would persuade most of those people who might walk away in disgust from a merged team to come back.

For once Bren i fully support you on this, I would support a merged club.

If you think about the long term and consider "Start with an end in mind" then yes in 10 years the people who are resistant to change will have disapeared and will have been replace by a young fertile fanbase that would grow anlong with a club that could harness THE greatest RL hotbed in the world.

But as always people will only consider themselfs and whats good for them now and the merger will never happen?

Some good points. Clearly Castleford are in no way to blame for the lack of progress of Wakefield. 40 years of underperformance, poor management and sheer bad luck combined with a stadium that has been increasingly unfit for purpose for the last 30 years has done all that.

We have lost 2 or 3 generations of fans due to having a run-down stadium in a not very desirable area of the city which is unattractive to new fans. Winning one play-off game in 12 years is hardly the kind of success that inspires the new breed of supporters.

To me, what your statistics show is the characteristics of core support; how difficult it is to increase and also how resiliant it is during hard times. The timescale is not really long enough to show the real trends. It takes decades, rather than years, to build support. Cas's relative success through the 80s and 90s has stood them in good stead right up to the present day. The same period saw the decline of success and support for Trinity, from which we are only just starting to recover. If you look at the attendance figures from 98 to present you will see a gradual increase. That's how core support grows, not in sudden booms, they tend to be just glory seekers (cough Bradford cough).

A good example would be Huddersfield, who share a similar lack of success for decades and now, despite being in a modern stadium with a fairly successful team, their crowds are only just starting to increase towards the magical 10K.

For the future: Trinity in a new stadium with regular appearances in the play-offs would definitely average 10k+ in 10 years. Unfortunately the demographics and increased population of the catchment area is inaccessible in the current conditions, and as such, has yet to be tapped.

On Castleford: their crowds are, to be fair, nothing short of remarkable from a local population of 40k. I've previously worked in Castlleford and the Tigers are very much a part of what it means to be from Cas and an important part of people's identity (which is not true, at present, in Wakefield). However, to acheive 10k average crowds I think they would need the new stadium (obviously) and be in or around the top 4 with regular visits to Wembley i.e. the level of success would have to be greater than that for Trinity.

Alternatively, if Wakefield were expelled indefinitely to the lower divisions then, as the only SL club in the district, the catchment area could slowly expand and guarantee those bigger gates.

So, in summary, are you holding us back? No. Are we holding you back? Possibly.

As far as I remember we refused its first time around. However I believe Wakefield refused it the second time it all came about

I think that's part of the reason that Cas's gates are so good, and were very good in NL1. It's also a very strong factor as to why a merger would be bad for the supporters. (Unless the merged team was called, and played in, Castleford!)

Sorry, I was referring to the mergers as a whole and not just the "Calder" merger. There was a huge amount of negativity from the fans that was directed at the RFL which caused them to abandon the plans wholesale.



See my reply to coco's post (above)

Weren't they good in NL1 because there was a recognised route back into the top flight? If one of us goes down next season and are facing 3 years in the Champo, with no clearly defined opportunity to get back in, I can't see either team retaining anything like a decent supporter base.

Perhaps.

I have no doubt that they would depreciate more knowing we'd have three years outside the top flight, perhaps longer. But we do have an extremely loyal base and I do find it hard to believe that all fans would walk away. I think we could remain like Widnes if we went down.

Fully if we went down we'd be on 4.5 to 5 thousand a home game, it's human nature. I'd be there though.

You're optimistic. We have average 5469 in 2005 and I think 5.1k in 2007.

Given our lowest attendance of this season was 4.9k v Catalans, I think our attendances would be about the 3.5k-4k mark.

Whether that is sustainable over the course of three years I don't know. If we went down, especially in this position, I've said I would turn my back on the game. It is not justified removing us when we've moved forwards, not backwards. When we offer things and others do not on the same scale.

Regardless, I probably would still be on the terraces come the start of the new season, though.

I think that 3.5k - 4k would be about right.

As for the last bit, I would say that is why Wakey will not get near that figure in the Championship, they do not have anywhere near as many core fans as we do.

I think they do have a similar core fanbase. I think they've just got fed up of everything and it's a case of loyalty coming at a price. Maybe we're just more gullible gits?

I often question the loyalty of Leeds Utd fans but despite a lot of them being total prats giving their club a bad reputation, boy do I bow down to their support, which is nothing short of phenomenal. Sorry if I offend anyone with the prats comment.

We may find out, one way or the other , next season.

That's my point.