FORUMS > Castleford Tigers > TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. |
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| Yes: I also saw Backchat episodes that didn't really provide both sides to Castleford's issues and it was very good at kicking Cas but not pointing out the reason behind some things.
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| If you 3 were to merge, FevTrin Tigers that is, you could really have a superb fan base If the 3 got behind the new club. It happened in Sydney with a few mergers where Eastern Suburbs, Western Suburbs , Balmain, Newtown Jets, Illawarra and others had to lose their identity as well as other partner merged clubs.
If you want to sustain a Super League Club then you may just have to merge too. Of course as some have said - they want their own identity at all costs even if it meant Championship football. But for a hotbed RL area like the Calder Valley that would be such a shame and quite shortsighted, we need a Super League club from the Calder, you are Rugby League people and deserve a successful sustainable trophy winning team again. The area is also a conveyor belt of talent , much of which has to be sold to balance the books. Imagine if you were getting 12k min every week, would you still be selling your top players ??
Normanton United Football Club is almost middle for diddle the 3 towns at about 3.5 to 4 miles to each RL side..
You wouldn't be the first RL League side to share with a football club and I'm sure Normanton United FC would welcome the development of their ground and the growth possibilities it would give them too. It looks perfect.
You may say that the Hull clubs would never merge but in Hull FCs case I'm not sure we have to, we are able to be self sustainable. For our red neighbours in the east their finances are less favourable and with them too, like yourselves, its down to fan base and the ceiling of around 7.5 / 8K that they are limited to.
If anything happened to Rovers it would be a disaster in my opinion, but I know Rovers fans who did watch Super league rugby at the KC when rovers were in the doldrums and I'm sure if the club did fold then over time some (but not all) HKR fans, would come to the KC from East Hull. just like they do with our football team.
If I had the choices of no Super League Rugby in Hull or a merged Club that would be sustainable then I would go for Super League as the product is simply immense.
You should at least think about it if the other option is Championsip or lower for the 3 of you eventually.
The way the 3 towns are growing, in 20 years time you all be joined together anyway as Great Calder. Great Calder Storm now there's a name ???
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| Quote: Uppo58 "If you 3 were to merge, FevTrin Tigers that is, you could really have a superb fan base If the 3 got behind the new club. It happened in Sydney with a few mergers where Eastern Suburbs, Western Suburbs , Balmain, Newtown Jets, Illawarra and others had to lose their identity as well as other partner merged clubs.
If you want to sustain a Super League Club then you may just have to merge too. Of course as some have said - they want their own identity at all costs even if it meant Championship football. But for a hotbed RL area like the Calder Valley that would be such a shame and quite shortsighted, we need a Super League club from the Calder, you are Rugby League people and deserve a successful sustainable trophy winning team again. The area is also a conveyor belt of talent , much of which has to be sold to balance the books. Imagine if you were getting 12k min every week, would you still be selling your top players ??
Normanton United Football Club is almost middle for diddle the 3 towns at about 3.5 to 4 miles to each RL side..
You wouldn't be the first RL League side to share with a football club and I'm sure Normanton United FC would welcome the development of their ground and the growth possibilities it would give them too. It looks perfect.
You may say that the Hull clubs would never merge but in Hull FCs case I'm not sure we have to, we are able to be self sustainable. For our red neighbours in the east their finances are less favourable and with them too, like yourselves, its down to fan base and the ceiling of around 7.5 / 8K that they are limited to.
If anything happened to Rovers it would be a disaster in my opinion, but I know Rovers fans who did watch Super league rugby at the KC when rovers were in the doldrums and I'm sure if the club did fold then over time some (but not all) HKR fans, would come to the KC from East Hull. just like they do with our football team.
If I had the choices of no Super League Rugby in Hull or a merged Club that would be sustainable then I would go for Super League as the product is simply immense.
You should at least think about it if the other option is Championsip or lower for the 3 of you eventually.
The way the 3 towns are growing, in 20 years time you all be joined together anyway as Great Calder. Great Calder Storm now there's a name ???'"
Or maybe cas could merge with say Gateshead, call the new club castleford, and play in castleford.
Or merge with Sheffield , call the new club castleford and play in castleford
Mergers are definitely the way forward
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| Quote: Uppo58 "
Normanton United Football Club is almost middle for diddle the 3 towns at about 3.5 to 4 miles to each RL side..
You wouldn't be the first RL League side to share with a football club and I'm sure Normanton United FC would welcome the development of their ground and the growth possibilities it would give them too. It looks perfect.
'"
Stay off the internet , you're dangerous
I can see the headlines now... Cas sell Wheldon Road and move to the Kibble
The land is part of a covenant, by the way.
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| oh dear oh dear! 2 leagues of ten sounds the best option t me, bring back p&r - sorted.
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| Quote: Lord Bruce Burton "Stay off the internet , you're dangerous
Made me do a breakfast chuckle, nearly spilt me coffee!
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| Normanton United????????????
Being from normanton, I must have a cigarette burn in my map of the town...
But I agree in principle yeah:
Cas sell Wheldon Road
Wakefield scrap Newmarket
Featehrstone cancel their stadium developnments
.....and play on "field of dreams" in Normy!
or maybe we could merge and have 39 players on the field at once, the RFL may allow it.
Finally this topic is closed lol
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| Cas are evidently punching above their weight and I would rather see them play NL than us merge.
Gte rid of our BOD (somehow) and start afresh, and I will be a supported with a new lease of love
Totally no offence to wakefield on this. We have our own clubs, as I'm sure 90+% of either sides will agree.
I'm surprised nobody has hit another angle on this and thought of Featherstone mergin solely with someone? Dunno their thoughts... probably same as ours.
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| Quote: captaincaveman "Or maybe cas could merge with say Gateshead, call the new club castleford, and play in castleford.
Or merge with Sheffield , call the new club castleford and play in castleford
Mergers are definitely the way forward'"
Hi Captain Caveman, your valid point is certainly not lost on me, and no-one would ever convince me that mergers of clubs that are some 140miles apart is ever going to be a real merger, your absolutely right. If there's an ulterior motive and / or its not agreed by the clubs involved then it shouldn't happen. In our case it did happen and Hull FC were the benefactors. It should never happen again in such a way in my opinion.
However in your case the distance we are talking about is just 4 miles to a mid point ground, not 140miles. OK Normanton Uniteds ground may not be right, but don't get hooked on it as the actual location, it just has to be somewhere that is fairly placed for all 3. I'm just seeing Nomanton FC ground/pitch as land that is already used for football, cricket, and so why not be the Stadium home for the area ??. Don't see it as a patch of land.......have the vision to see it as your stadium.
The KC stadium was built on parkland with its own covenant and also incorporating a Rugby Union and Cricket pitch. The Council found a way to overcome the barriers to make it happen If the place I propose is a no-goer then propose something better in Normanton thats even better placed.
Do not under estimate what such a stadium could do for your area in general, the KC has been brilliant for East Yorkshire as a whole, not just Hull the City.
Regarding "merger power " Unlike Hull/Gateshead, with TrinTigersFev even the youngest team was founded 84 years ago, no one team is a newcomer. All 3 have pretty equal League tradition and trophy winning success.
Wakefield Trinity founded 1873 Ground Capacity 11,000 ish Championships 2 Challenge Cups 5
Castleford Tigers founded 1926 Ground Capacity 12,000 ish Challenge Cups 4
Featherstone Rov founded 1902 Ground Capacity 6,750 Championships 1 Challenge Cup 3
Although Wakefield have slightly more trophy wins they are also the side with the longest wait for a trophy. With no wins in the 70s or 80s unlike their near neighbours.
So overall one could say you could fit a fag paper between the 3 of them.
My point being of course that generally speaking none of the 3 are the leading side who should dominate a merger.
If you can become one you will be so much more than the sum of the 3. Its about a mindset change to do what is needed to deliver a team from your area that can sit at Rugby Leagues top table, command large attendances, hold onto its best players, AND win trophies. OR you can be proud, with great traditions and history but no SL team representing the area. Why think small ? why not come together and think big ??
Some on here have said that they would go to Headingley to watch SL Rugby, if the Calder region clubs lost license, went bust, went lower league etc. But why should Cas fans or any of you fans travel over 15 miles to Headingley when you could travel less than 4 miles to your own new ground ?
With a joint commitment from the 3 of you to a new stadium RedHall would have to do a major rethink on your Re Licence. Because together you are stronger politically also.
Wakefield were prepared to build a ground 3 miles from Wakefield Centre, so surely one a similar distance from all 3 towns and allowing you all to watch your own bigger better super league team would be immeasurably better than braving the 15 miles of Leeds traffic would it not ? The newmarket Stadium was to have a capacity of 12,000. In my opinion that would be redundant straight away for you 3 together. I think it would take an 18,000 cap. new stadium to house a successful team from your area and all the Fev Cas and Trin fans.
You need to have a vision, be unselfish and be brave. If Super League is to be with us for our next generations of fans I would rather it be here with a team from your rich RL area. Not without.
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| Quote: Uppo58 "Hi Captain Caveman, your valid point is certainly not lost on me, and no-one would ever convince me that mergers of clubs that are some 140miles apart is ever going to be a real merger, your absolutely right. If there's an ulterior motive and / or its not agreed by the clubs involved then it shouldn't happen. In our case it did happen and Hull FC were the benefactors. It should never happen again in such a way in my opinion.
However in your case the distance we are talking about is just 4 miles to a mid point ground, not 140miles. OK Normanton Uniteds ground may not be right, but don't get hooked on it as the actual location, it just has to be somewhere that is fairly placed for all 3. I'm just seeing Nomanton FC ground/pitch as land that is already used for football, cricket, and so why not be the Stadium home for the area ??. Don't see it as a patch of land.......have the vision to see it as your stadium.
The KC stadium was built on parkland with its own covenant and also incorporating a Rugby Union and Cricket pitch. The Council found a way to overcome the barriers to make it happen If the place I propose is a no-goer then propose something better in Normanton thats even better placed.
Do not under estimate what such a stadium could do for your area in general, the KC has been brilliant for East Yorkshire as a whole, not just Hull the City.
Your merger was only done to get you into super league by the back door the same as Huddersfield. On the subject of us merging with Wakefield and Featherstone i would never watch rugby again and i have been a Cas supporter for 50 years. I would however agree to a groundshare but the problem is that unlike the rest of you with new grounds we would have to finance it ourselves, we have no football clubs or council funds to pay for it, so can you tell me where the money will come from. If Pearson leaves FC for Leeds United it will be interesting to see what happens to you.
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| I have never heard such garbage.
I actually play cricket on the land he is suggesting and.... just..... no.
I cannot even begin to start listing the issues with what has just been said
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| From the outside looking in, I have to say that a merger of Cas, Wakey and Fev would produce a single strong team from an area that has produced some top RL players over the years.
However, I understand the want to hold onto individual identities but in the harsh light of the modern era, when so many clubs walk a knife-edge between safety and oblivion, perhaps it is better to have a merged club than no club at all?
And a merger doesn't have to mean the end of the traditional clubs either. In fact, maintaining those clubs as well as their academy systems at Championship level would be of great benefit to the game.
There is also the financial side of things to consider, a new single purpose built stadium for the new team is cheaper and quicker than trying to push through individual plans. Cheaper to run in the long term too.
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| Quote: roofaldo2 "From the outside looking in, I have to say that a merger of Cas, Wakey and Fev would produce a single strong team from an area that has produced some top RL players over the years.
However, I understand the want to hold onto individual identities but in the harsh light of the modern era, when so many clubs walk a knife-edge between safety and oblivion, perhaps it is better to have a merged club than no club at all?
And a merger doesn't have to mean the end of the traditional clubs either. In fact, maintaining those clubs as well as their academy systems at Championship level would be of great benefit to the game.
There is also the financial side of things to consider, a new single purpose built stadium for the new team is cheaper and quicker than trying to push through individual plans. Cheaper to run in the long term too.'"
This coming from a Bradford fan jeez the stink of hypocrisy and conceit is almost unbearable.
Well then lets merge Leeds/Bradford, Hull/Hull KR, Wigan/Leigh and Widnes/Warrington for all the same reasons and of course looking from the outside.
I'm sick to death of pompous wally's like you demanding we do something that no other clubs are willing to do despite it being exactly the same - now do one.
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| Quote: tigerman49 "
Hello Tigerman, your right re the merger reasons, and I've already said just that, so we are in agreement on that.
We are also in agreement re. any main funds provider leaving any club. Yes of course this would have an effect on the running of any club. That is quite clear, but not relevant to this debate unless those providing monies to any of your 3 teams are thinking of leaving. I hope not.
Re. your proposal of ground share - It simply doesnt solve your key problems Tigerman.
Which are ;
1)Critical mass fan base
2)Related profitability
3)Player retention
4)Future SL Licensing
5)Continued low resources funding 3 full club structures
6)Inability to compete with rest of SL for top tier players.
7)Ongoing team quality
3 teams and v close neighbours bringing into small geographic area a total of around 75 SL capable quad players.
9)3 teams diluting the cream of all the local youth talent
10) Championship destiny.
11) All above would mean lower confidence in the venture effecting any potential investment from Council/Lottery/Euro econ Devel/Business etc.
this list could go on.....
1 merged team from the region would change every one of the above points.
Its a shame you would not watch Rugby again with merged teams, it would be the games loss and yours. Though I'm sure many others would watch, and once the region had its new 1 Team in new modern stadium its amazing the inertia that can deliver.
Certainly if such change cannot be accepted, then ultimately you would get your choice of not watching Super League again in your own backyard.
"I can't have my clapped out mini so I'll refuse to drive the new VW because its not my exact colour and its a got a different name, I'm just not sure about it. Nah, I'd rather have my bike than go there."
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| Quote: vastman "This coming from a Bradford fan jeez the stink of hypocrisy and conceit is almost unbearable.
Well then lets merge Leeds/Bradford, Hull/Hull KR, Wigan/Leigh and Widnes/Warrington for all the same reasons and of course looking from the outside.
I'm sick to death of pompous wally's like you demanding we do something that no other clubs are willing to do despite it being exactly the same - now do one.'"
Hi Vastman, If ever Leeds/Hull/Wigan/Warrington were in the same position as Wakey/Cas/Fev AND also had clone town teams within 3 or 4 miles of them then I think you would have a point. The fact is they are not. And though Bradford have had a lucky escape, with good managemnt they can easily survive and be profitable with what they have going for them. They were a leading force in SL a short time ago and can be there again. So can you too if you are brave and have the vision to maximise all the potential of your area.
A better example of your "argument" may be in Cumbria at some future time. However they are further away from the debate at present not being in or even in the vicinity of SL like you 3 are. But if they did become 1 team in the futture well of course they could well become a force too. With a new stadium catalyst I could well see a Cumbrian team being forced through to SL a la Widnes.
But alone, like youselves they will struggle to sustain a competitive SL team . Of course Barrow is some 45 miles from the other 2 so a 3 way merger is just not that practical up there.
I can see no hypocracy whatsoever coming rom the Bradford fan. Only hard logic from the outside looking in, on what is an emotive issue on the inside. Good judgement and survival should not be clouded by emotion.
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